Definition of Civil Drive for Police/P. Protection Dogs - Page 14

Max,

You haven't found the secret pot of gold, just a different spin on civil agitation and working a dog in that specific drive. I would love to see some video of a dog working in the zone.

Feloffher

Would 17 nationals, 6 world championships suffice?
 2 of the world championships, were with the
same dog.

 I noticed people are getting good dogs over here, but
they don't put the time in on their training like they use to.

5 years ago you could see maybe 10 dogs that are in the 290's.
Now I don't know whats happened.

I think the Carson City national will be a hum dinger, because the people
this year are the best. But I don't expect to see a lot of high scores.

Max

Under my definition of Civil Drive/Work/Agitation, I cannot see the kind of  Sport dogs your speaking of "light up" on a stranger on the street. Civil work for PSD/PPD is totally different than Sport Dogs on a field.

Max,

 That's very impressive from a sport prespective congratulations. 

PL,



Civil work for PSD/PPD is totally different than Sport Dogs on a field.

very good point....

But IMO the definition for civil drive as it pertains to police dogs is what
I addressed......Police dogs are a big deal,..it may be better to split the topic.
Keep it personal protection and PSD.

I have done work with police departments......and that is who I have tried to trained..
About 800.....officers.

But of the dogs I have trained , all could do police work as well.
It's alot to expect people to take in what has taken me 30 years put in a
thread like this one. People who ask questions don't bother me at all.
But what I say my not be what they  used to hearing. The stuff I am telling
you is not beyond your scope of understanding. And you really should
know about it.

I can tell you horse trainers do lateral flextion and move the horse hind quarters
do a number of dressage exercises but most people unless they have competed
would not see the benefit of any of that......Same with dogs.

I will stop right here and give some other people a chance to speak on the topic.

Pirates lair,
A civil dog is a civil dog, it is in the temperament.  I had a sport dog that I raised from a pup, V rated SchH3 KKL1A that would light up and eat people on the street.  I was offered several thousand dollars for the dog at 1 year old by a PD.  I know sport dogs, national level sport dogs that have competed nationally that will light up for real.  Don't think that all sport people only work in prey, I can assure you that is not the case.  Just watch some trials and you can see the "real" dogs from the "sport" dogs.    

I also have seen and worked some very expensive PPD's that wouldn't bite me for real with out equipment but are sharks on a suit or sleeve.  I have washed out some Police K9's for not wanting to bite me for real when offered a bare arm and strongly pushed into defense. 


Bottom line it depends on the dog and the training.  For me most PPD's are sport dogs trained with different equipment.  Please don't take this the wrong way, I have a lot of respect for your style of training.  Some of your videos were very impressive.  However, not everyone offering PPD's does it correctly.    

There are some very high end sport people that train their dogs for real and these dogs will work as well as any PPD out there.  They will also compete at National events. 

JMO FWIW,

Jim

edited to correct bear to bare for Don C.

I apologize if I sounded like I was insulting Sport dogs, I was speaking in general terms. I know of one French Ring Champion Mal that Hell would be afraid of. Anyway I think we are all talking about the same thing in our own language so to speak. I have enjoyed reading the many ideas from trainers with actual knowledge.

Well I know Jim and I are on the same page, as well as Fellinher, but Max is out there. This shouldn't be this hard. Oh, and Jim, why are you using bear arms? I would think a dog would rather bite a bare arm. Bear arms are too hairy.

Another PPD guy who chirps about his real dogs yet has nothing to test them by but his own words.  Do you have knowledge of the way I train my "sport" dogs??  In the past I have entered "PPD" shows in Chicago with my "sport" dogs and ironically smoked all the "real" dogs.  It's the dog and the training, not the sport that make the "dog".

Oh boy! Who let the dogs out? Who? Who who who?