Inferior Quality VonWilhendorf Dog - Page 13

Just an FYI to all those who are trying to educate and be informative in this thread and feel it is falling on deaf ears or blind eyes as the case may be.  Some of us are paying attention and learning something through this thread.  I have found it very informative, we just aren't joining in on the argument bc we don't have enough knowledge to offer an informed argument.  All we have to throw in are opinions.  But we are reading, and I would venture to say I'm not the only one doing so.

Donnerstorm, that's the only reason I've continued to respond to the posts that allege that there are breeders who are intentionally producing this particular structural fault by way of the dogs they select to use for breeding stock--because I know there are others like yourself who *want* to know the truth about the existence of this faulty stance within the breed, and who want to know if the claims that a breeder who produces a pup like Natalee is therefore negligent, unconscientious, unethical, uncaring, and/or interested only in their profit and not the welfare of the breed as a whole. (The answer to the latter premise is "No, none of these apply to a breeder as a result of producing a pup like Natalee. All it takes for a breeder to produce a pup with severe cowhocks is for them to breed one dog to another dog. Nature takes it from that point forward.") 

Intentenionaly bred to produce a fault?Are you kidding?

zdog, name one person who said that is normal. Just one, and show me where they said that. It's amazing to me how poor the mainstream public's reading comprehension is and how quickly they jump to nasty conclusions and assumptions. Helping a dog who was dealt a bad hand is construed as permissive of breeders breeding genetic faults? Unbeliveable.

I think I need a forum sabbatical. TTFN.

Have fun on your Sabattical.  My reading comprehension skills are just fine, in fact, have always been quite strong. 

I realize this is about a dog in need of help.  I wasn't refernecing that at all.  I wasn't saying helping was being permissive.  I wasn't saying any of the things you're being defensive about, and why you are, I have no idea.  Maybe i'm not the one lacking in comprehension skills?

I don't need to re-read pages upon pages of nothingness again to find examples of people saying puppies move like this all the time and just need time to grow out of it.  I don't need to spend more time around certain types of breeders to see these puppies being popped out by the dozen and wobbling all over creation because some will "grow into it" and move better as adults.   I don't need a few examples from a thread to illustrate an attitude among certain types of breeders and puppy buyers, that this is no big deal.  It's there, it's pervasive and it sucks. 

Demand better and get better.  That's my point.  if you're producing puppies that move like this regularly, quit breeding.  you have no business no matter how many awards you've won.

Hexe, yes I understand that genetics  are responsible. Hexe would you say that selective breeding for certain traits will alter the offspring in any way.Would you concede that the genectic makeup has been altered to some degree through selective breeding of s/l dogs.I'm sure that you'll agree that todays s/l gsd is different in appearance then the common gsd. Is the result a beautiful, fabulus looking animal, I'll be the first to say yes it is. Is there a price that has to be paid for the finished product, I believe there is and I believe dogs like Natalee pay it. Do I think it's about money, in this case the answer is pretty obvious. Do I think this is common,yes.
     Do I think people are breeding for this,no not intentionally but by proxy I do.I believe that the s/l breeders produce a higher percentage of extremely cowhocked puppies then what would be considered the norm and I beleive it is directly connected to selective breeding for a particular structure.
     Both yours and cages posts on page 2 , could easily be translated as saying this is the norm,or at least common  and that it can be seen often at akc shows and in s/l dogs in general. I realize  that's not what you said, but I think you'll agree it was implied to a certain extent intentionally or not. I'm not a fan of the roach back either, showline people have control of what is correct or what they think is correct. I guess we'll continue to see the evolution of the s/l gsd for better or worse.

Robin, I do think you are wasting your time trying to educate someone who has never bred or put their time and finances into a dog.

I detest cow hocks, just as I detest the roach. But the rear can be changed in one generation/breeding. Some of these folks need to try fixing shoulders or croups.

In the end, it's the same old story. People who have no idea what they are doing, buy a dog from a picture. Spend thousands on the dog, don't spend the few extra hundred it would take to go and see the dog. all the while thinking it's the road to riches and then bitch because they didn't get a perfect dog. the close to perfect dogs are going to China and it ain't for a few thousand $.

jmo,

Rik

Michael,
I have never stated it is considered to be normal,I said it is not unusual.I also mentioned I had a WL female with this problem - it was not that bad as in Natalee and it get much much better with age as she matured physically and of course because she was worked daily.http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=612839 - check her pedigree,both her dam and sire were dogs with correct comformation,hips and were not cow hooked, both of them produced healthy progeny, her sire is father of 3 males that competed at WUSV and FCI.Actually,one of them Jorick di Dranel took 2nd place at FCI World mastership.
She was tireless,had great drives and character,she had B hips (1/0).No way she was crippled.

Hunger for Justice.... Are you John Henkels cereal box attorney??  If so, too bad you have to stoop to this level to plead your case.  Shameful.

Deleted by poster...too much drama

I have not read this entitre thread.  Frankly, I stopped reading it in its entirety about half-way through.   However, I do check every now and then in wonderment that it has continued, and astonishment at the content of some of the posts.   

That being said, I don't understand why anyone would stoop to attempting to cast aspersions of a professional nature  at hunger4justice, especially when he/she  has provided you  (and anyone else reading the post) with sound legal information. .. GRATIS!!   I would thing/hope that the more intelligent among us would make a point of noting the information for future reference, and be glad that they didn't have to pay $350 an hour for it.    In fact,  knowing some of the posters, I am sure that they have copied the information for future reference.