They are all the same breed - Page 13

I know my showline who wasn't as bad as most, had a curved spine. It did not straiten no matter how she stood. It was like a tent pole curved up and back down in a arch. I didn't like it as I had not experienced this with a dog of my own before and the spine stuck out if she was anything but over weight. I also believed it to attribute to her health problems and lack of power/jumping ability.

That's pretty bad!!

LOL, you win, Jeff, you have way too much class for me. 

BTW is it true you don't even own a GSD? Just asking, don't flip out. Have a good day.

Sunsilver: Thanks for the info   I stumbled over the King Shepherd saying it was an   ABRA recognized breed......so its this King shepherd, who is says  resembles   the German  Shepherd.  It is long, robust , and musclar with a solid  structure.   The working dog is strong , vigorous and agile and intelligent... tHE kING sHEPHERD COMES IN SABLE OR WITH A BLACK SADDLE ON TAN, GOLD , CREAM OR SILVER...   so is this dog crossed with something else ?

Did they just breed all the big oversized german shepherds.? This dog is CH. Chateau de Chief's Bustah Bruin, CGC    Says they range from 130 - 150 lbs for males and females are from 90- 110.

So if someone shows up at a schutzhund club with one of these , do they accept them in the club or tell them shove off ole mate....your dog does not meet the standard?

 This dog has a BIS< BISS in from of its name and is 148 lbs.   it is his  5th All-breed BIS   of course I realize this is show titles....but where are these trials held .

The thread we are discussing is      They are all the same breed....these people say they are all the same breed, also.\What is ABRA...?

Now we address the other style or type of german shepherds advertised by a group of breeders that are AKC registered and say  the the breeders are committed to bringing back the Old-Fashioned German Shepherd., large , tall dogs that are intelligent, calm, and stable..These German Shepherds make wonderful family pets and loyal companions that are naturally protective. Their intelligence and willingness to please make them easy to train...These breeders are approved., long term breeders of integrity who have a common goal to re-create what the German Shepherd used to be------not fot show, not high drive Schutzhund dogs , but old-fashioned family pets that you can trust around your children and family.

Visit us at  http:/ /showcase.netins.net/web/royalair

www.homestead.com      www.royalair.org    and       www.old-world-shepherds.com

These advertisements are where John Q Public get the idea that our  shepherd lines are agressive , high drivey and too much dog for family, and are unsafe to put in a home.....regardless of training and type of lineage , whether it be predominantly show lines , as such, or total  working lines or DDR lines .   Therei are about 6 more sites listed and most have lots of long hair and  all colors and whites.....    short, standard and long coats listed as a choice.....|
Another one is

Briarwood German Shepherds   in Michigan     and  Legacy German Shepherds in New Jersey......... 

So now we have these German Shepherds         are they apart of the Same breed?

Yellowrose, I can't answer your question about what blood is in the King, but from one of the web pages I saw, it says you can register it as a King if  you cross a GSD or a Shiloh Shepherd with a registered King. If that's the truth, then I know what outcrosses Tina has used. (I have her book.) The first was MAW (Sampson), a dog that was a mix of giant malemute and old-line GSD's that included London in their ancestry. The next was to one of Don Baker's dogs, who was raising a breed he called Texas Woolies. This breed was a mix of old Wurtemburger Shepherds, some Sarplaninac (a flock guardian breed) and old line GSD's. From the look of the dogs, I believe the GSD was the dominant breed in the mix. Another outcross was to the Hoofprint kennel's white GSD's, and the final, most recent cross, which I think came after the King Shepherds split away, was to Artus, an Alte Deutscher Schaeferhund. Of course, since they're still allowing Kings to cross wiht Shilohs, Artus may figure in their gene pool.

Some of TIna's pure-blooded GSD's were 30" tall and well over 100 lbs, so it's easy to see how the Kings got so big once the malamute blood was added in. Since the Kings aren't AKC recognized, they hold their own breed events, and also show under the ARBA (American Rare Breed Assoc.) That's where the titles are from. I see they've also started their own Schutzhund club. I'd be curious to know just how they find people willing to be helpers for these dogs! 

4pack,
great question,
Unfortunatly I have not had the time to read all the posts. The little I read (hodie's response to Jeff) and Blitzens response to Jeff, caused some concern for me. If you read this Jeff I wanted to tell you the other day that you have lots to offer. I personally would like to be able to hear what you have to share regarding training methods and other observations. I thouroghly enjoyed reading your posts when they first came on. You have though, for what ever reason flushed much of that down the toilet and are posting what was in the toilet before that. There are young, children that are invested in learning about gsds and training them etc. So keep that in mind when you post. Keep on task, get your posts back up to speed and contribute to the site so those of us that enjoy learning from others can continue to do so.  I am as sincere as can be on this bro.

4pack, IMO in a world that I had control over, ( which I don't ) I would like to see the breed come back to what it was 30-40 years ago when there was no such thing as two classes, working and show lines. I remember the first show lines I saw and was confused as to why this dog from a very well know breeder in Germany, and titled at that, would not work. It was not there. Then years later every one is tellling me this color or that would not work. They were show lines. That you needed to go to these kennels or this color for working.

IMO though the reality is it will never happen. I would like to see one day that I was wrong, but I just don't see changing human nature and that' where all the problems start and stay.

So the best I would hope for is that those that love the show lines would be angry, angry enough to start pushing to raise the standards and requirements of show lines. Testing would get tougher and more concern would go back to the dogs brains and true working charactor.
That the working lines would continue to be uncomprimising in health and charactor and at least look at improving the dogs physical type  as it relates to working, not show. I believe there is a difference.

Out cross breeding can do this but it would take lots of time, money and selfless dedication. Max died so I don't know if there is any one that would have this passion.