Letter from Dr. Heinrich of the WUSV - Page 12

"by Les The Kiwi Pauling on 28 August 2016 - 07:08 "

" Are you being trained by Sara, the Samoan woman who delivered my meals & drinks during the 2 months I was stuck in a hospital bed last year? "

Sorry, no, how old is she? Maybe she was trained by me...

Nonsense - Les, I do have the major advantage to have been part of the German "dog circuit" for more than 30 years, that said I had the pleasure to see ( and have hands on ) more German Shepherd Dogs within one year than most people outside of Europe will see in their whole life. I was never hooked to working lines or show lines, but always to good dogs ( good looking dogs able to work ).

Neither the hard core "working line" people are right, nor the hard core "show line" people. I saw very good show lines, and I saw very good working lines, on the other hand I saw mediocre dogs out of both camps.

At the end of the day it´s about the dog in front of you, nothing else.

susie, , I could not agree MORE with that !

Did the New Zealander just try to teach me how the GSDCA/USCA function in the United States? Did that really just happen? Seriously man...stop...you know little to nothing about what goes on within the United States and the internal politics of the clubs themselves or what the market cares about in regards to working titles or show titles or AKC points or whatever else happens in America with regards to the GSD. Stop trying to confuse people and make them think you have any idea of what's happening outside of your living room (or wherever you've decided to put your computer) when it comes to the GSD breed and the direction the breed is headed.

You pick apart posts completely out of context and 5 days late. Not only are you way too late with any responses or attacks you chose to do on this forum, you're decades too late with your knowledge of the GSD breed anywhere outside of New Zealand.

[susie] 28.8.2016 - 17:08

● "Neither the hard core "working line" people are right, nor the hard core "show line" people. I saw very good show lines, and I saw very good working lines, on the other hand I saw mediocre dogs out of both camps.
At the end of the day it´s about the dog in front of you, nothing else."
Except when it comes to BREEDING stock (where progeny results are more important than the parents your SEE in front of you) I am VERY happy to agree with you and with [Hundmutter]. I am NOT a fan of exaggerations, whether they be exaggerated behaviour or exaggerated construction or exaggerated "handling".


[Bavarian Wagon] 29.8.2016 - 16:08

● "the direction the breed is headed."
You ARE optimistically thinking that what you see is RIGHT.
As directives from The KC (UK) and the SV in the middle of this year have indicated, the breed has been heading in a multiplicity of directions that all end up as unfunctional caricatures of the all-rounders that the GSD was MEANT to be. I don't consider that Mutz P > Jonny R > Gauner G were perfect (you "know" that only YOU is perfect!), but they remain as my favourite GSDs outside the GSDs I've owned. I suspect that   http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2204494-be-my-yusha-of-sarelle   would be another favourite, had he been exhibited anywhere that I was present. I am delighted to find that a descendant of his was mated to my favourite recently deceased GSD in NZ, and that his own semen has been stored - so sooner or later (assuming I stay alive) I WILL be incorporating his genes into "my" bloodlines

Edited by GSDHeritage Admin

Les:
"the breed has been heading in a multiplicity of directions that all end up as unfunctional caricatures of the all-rounders that the GSD was MEANT to be. "

I am fully with you that a good GSD should be an all-rounder, with balanced prey and defense drives, in addition to all of the fundamental traits that is the signature of a GSD, like say natural suspicion of strangers etc. Never prey-monkeys that are becoming the norm among the sport crowd, and this "norm" is being rampantly perpetuated by selective breeding, unfortunately.

Every time I see one of these prey monkeys that simply cannot be left unleashed in a home (you won't have a home to return back to, if they are left unleashed and unsupervised), I marvel at how far such creatures have departed from the all-rounders that the GSD was meant to be.

A few years back, I had a chance to see the personal GSD of a top IPO competitor (who will remain un-named). The dog is super impressive and puts on a real show when out in the field, but when back at home, lies around like a dummy, even when strangers walk in. Just a harmless, friendly bear who is a sucker for being petted....a golden retriever in GSD garb. In my mind, that multiple IPO3 working line dog has had every bit of his GSD nature surgically excised out of him (and his near ancestors), via selective breeding for extreme prey (needed for the worthless performance on a sport field). All of the prey aggression he displays on the field is just pure showmanship, than something with real substance.

The "prey" for such sport-dogs being the sport-sleeve on a decoy's hand or a decoy with a bite-suit (they are real alligators and put on an impressive show when biting these harmless inanimate objects), but otherwise completely lacking in every single fundamental and secondary GSD instincts. Such sport-dogs should never, ever be bred, IMHO, since they are the true bane of the breed.

Les breeding all arounders? I would love to know the last dog he bred that was titled. People want to bash IPO and say how easy it is…no reason for a dog to not be able to title then. I’d be amazed if it was in this century, or even at all.

The majority of how a dog acts is trained. There is no knowing if the dog not getting up is a trained behavior or genetic. I’d assume that this is a trained behavior as 99% of dogs I know would get up and go to the door and at least let out a bark. I also know very few people who are competing for the podium at the nationals, or going to the world championships, that have their competition dogs in the house. Would love to know who this person is since it’s definitely not the norm. If the handler is in the house, near the dog, and the handler isn’t reacting negatively to the new person entering the home, there is no reason for the dog to react aggressively.

I don’t agree with prey monsters either, and I see them very rarely. Most dogs today are still defensively balanced and lacking the drive to excel in IPO. Higher prey does help, it also usually coincides with the stronger nerves necessary to compete at higher levels on strange fields and strange helpers. Most training, especially with defensive dogs, is building the confidence in the dog that the helper can’t/won’t hurt them so that they are able to fight without worrying about the bigger and stronger animal hurting them. Prey drive just makes that easier. Many of the dog still have natural aggression, unfortunately the jealous people on the sideline need to run their mouths and come up with some reason why the dog that’s crushing them on the field isn’t a “good dog” and why their 70-70-70 is better.

@aaykay - One of the things that i love about sport so, so much is that it is a true "Show me" sport. Show me what your theories in action, show me your talk in living movement...

So aaykay, show me what you have done, how your dog is able to stand up to stress of precision over time, show me the structure of your dog that has not broken down, show me the character of your dog while in the fight (either during a drive or on a bite suite). It doesn't have to be in IPO, show me your dog doing herding with 30+ sheep, show me your dog performing in Ring (Mondio, Belgium, French). Hell show me your dog even playing in an Iron Dog event or out working a detection area searching off lead but following your direction.

This right here is the biggest problems in the breed and the culture. Everyone willing to spit out knowledge of what a GSD is supposed to be, what traits they need to have but it seem only a very small percent are willing to actually put in the work with their dogs and do something. I see examples every day of breeders who state they know what Max had in mind and they promote that through their breeding yet their lines never do much of anything. You hear from GSD owners who have all kinds of health and genetic issues on this board and in our respective communities only to have the breeder of that litter say "thats not from my lines" even though the problems are 100% genetic.

We all agree that IPO/SchH, herding, tracking and S&R are NOT end all be all testing of the stock, but its a hella good start. As its been pointed out on this board constantly, you WILL know what is at the end of the leash when you start performing a job/sport. You will know the heart, character, health and structure suredness... And prancing a dog around a small circle a few times to be critiqued just doesn't show shyte!!!!!

One last thought from my soapbox... Why do some people assume that the "all around breed of a GSD" equate to a single dog??? A dog that is genetically great for LE may not be so great for a seeing eye service dog... Does this mean then that the breed is broken because one dog who has great hunt drive and is genetically more dispositioned to tracking but does not do well sitting around at someones side for 12-18 hours a day is a bad respensentation of what a GSD is?

Oh wait ...here we go again. I'll get the popcorn, if someone else brings the coffees.

No popcorn necessary, Cutaway is spot on.

It´pretty easy to declare that your GSD´s ( or the single specimens of your breeding stock ) are the epitome of the breed.
As long as there is no proof, and be it a "shitty, easy to achieve" IPO title, you will never know for sure.
Everything that´s left is "personal belief"...and nobody even talked about the breed survey yet...

but how shall I believe in the opinion of a breeder that never trained and titled his own stock? Someone, who never even experienced the differences? Someone, who never became aware of the advantages and disadvantages of his own breeding stock COMPARED TO OTHERS?

Bavarian Wagon- "Les breeding all arounders? I would love to know the last dog he bred that was titled"

Cutaway- "So aaykay, show me what you have done"

Susie - "No popcorn necessary, Cutaway is spot on..."

I think all of the above have agreed that one SHOULD show some proofs of their achievements to backup their claims of knowledge.

Les has named some of his dogs. In fact Bav has herself provided a link which mentions the name of the kennel owned by someone called Les Pauling. So, one can easily go to his website and see what specimens of GSDs he has produced so far

Isn't it fair that now Bav also shows some of her dogs? Or, was that applicable for aaykay only, because (s)he DARED to support Les?