Inferior Quality VonWilhendorf Dog - Page 12

admin removed: TOS violation-posted a members personal information.

As someone who practiced law for 20+ years, I can find no case in Indiana where cow hock was a reason to declare a breach of contract in the sale of a dog.  Depending upon the actual wording of the contract and written communication between the parties, and the fact the buyer elected not to examine the dog before purchase, the court may well decide that there is no material breach and that not only is the purchase price not to be refunded, they may order the losing side to pay the others legal costs.  Unless cow hocks were specifically mentioned in the contract or words to the effect that any structural defects that would impact the show quality of the dog will result in a refund then I doubt this lady will prevail anyway.  I hope she is trying to mitigate her damages or else she may be in for a real surprise.    

michael49, do you understand that genetics responsible for the structural fault known as 'cowhocks' exists within the breed overall, and that nobody is breeding FOR it?  And that the condition existed in the breed long, long before there was any split between 'show' lines and 'working' lines, and long before anyone was, as you put it, 'breeding for extremes'?  That it exists, to the same varying degrees of severity, in most breeds of dogs, regardless of whether the breeders of those varieties are 'breeding for extremes' or not?  That it shows up in mixed breed dogs, if the genetics are there for it? It even shows up in wolves, and nobody's breeding for it there...

Cowhocks show up to varying degrees fairly often, even if neither parent has that conformation fault, and regardless of the breed involved. What you need to understand is that there's no way to predict which pairings will produce a pup with cowhocks, nor is there a way to predict to what degree that stance will occur. It is not 'caused' by 'extreme angulation', although an imbalance between front and rear angulation can sometimes be seen in dogs that have this structure; likewise, it can also be seen in dogs that have moderate angulation front and rear, but are extremely short-coupled in the body, or which have the 'arched' (which I still hold is actually a ROACHED, and which I HATE) back that has become so prevalent in the SV style conformation rings.  There are plenty of dogs with 'extreme angulation' that are not cowhocked, just as there are plenty of dogs with short-coupling or that blasted 'arched' back that aren't as well.  It's all a matter of how the genetic cards fall. Period.

This fault does not 'develop' in the way that a callous develops to protect tender skin, but rather is present from the moment the puppy's skeleton is formed and the muscles, tendons and ligaments are laid down and connected to the bones...you just can't SEE the stance until the pup is old enough to start the growth phase where they begin to achieve that correct 8:10 proportion between length of leg and length of body the breed standard calls for, and thereby start moving like an adult dog instead of a wobbling puppy.  But developmentally, you can't say that the cowhocks is *caused* by the angulation, or the short-coupling, or the 'arched' back--it's a chicken-and-egg thing: which structural 'glitch' came first...or did they arrive as a package deal?

No, cowhocks are not normal for the GSD, and no, there isn't anyone breeding for it's occurance.  Yes, I do consider it 'acceptable' that there are always going to be some percentage of pups that are born with that structural fault because the genetics are within the breed (and within the majority of the species), and there's no way to completely eliminate those genetics.  Unlike hip dysplasia or ununited anconeal process, however, cowhocks will not cripple the dog nor will it become a cause of pain because a degenerative process will set in; consequently, it ranks low on my list of things I worry about in a dog.

This hot topic reminds me of the this very same video

German Shepherd half dog half frog 
Who cares what vets thinks about the "breed standards" and what gives them the right to dictate what is normal and what isn't normal? They don't know anything about the breed standards. What truly counts is a none medically licensed individual who happens to be a certified judge at a conformation show tells you that your dogs fit the standards by giving you that first place blue ribbon so you can breed to make more abnormal dogs according to highly trained vets.

Obviously the lady isn't satisfied with her "product" therefour I think she has the right to get a refund, not a replacement. I hope VonWilhendorf is responsible enough to do what is right; to take back Natalie, and refund all of this woman her money, and leave it as is.

Brittany...do you realize just how "juvenile & ridiculous" your first paragraph actually sounds...? *I don't think that you do*.
Maybe...just maybe....you could go back and read Hexe's posts.....
Learn that being born "cow-hocked" does not stem from being born from "extreme parents or lineage".....so no *frogs* need be involved..
Puppies from your own litter had just as much chance of being born cow-hocked, as any other breeder's....what then??....were *frogs* involved?

People posted on this thread because they were/are concerned with the welfare of the specific dog involved....and to also possibly "educate" on this abnormality that can and does occur in ALL bloodlines, and does not mean a dog is poorly bred.
*Not one person (including myself) has stated that this physical fault is "normal".*

 I'm confused because I'm not even sure what exactly is the OP's complaint - aside from not liking the dogs hocks. Was there a purchase agreement in place?  What were the agreed upon terms of the purchase? 

I note that the breeder came on and said they would not replace the dog, so does that mean they are willing to refund the purchase price upon the return of the dog?  I certainly hope the OP doesn't think they are entitled to a refund and keep the dog.  We've seen that scam on here more than once.

What is it that Iron Horse wants from the breeder at this point?


 

Sue.....I shall agree with you.
If the buyer was not immediately happy with the pup/dog....then the breeder/seller should offer compensation. (whatever their agreement or contract states is between them).

People hear what they want to hear, Robin. They want to hear how us horrible show breeders are bastardizing the GSD, they want to hear how we are breeding crippled dogs for blue ribbons/the almighty buck, they want to hear more about how awful we treat our buyers and what money grubbing dog pimps we are. Why, I don't know. They sure don't want to be educated because they know everything already. I had a long, courteous, thought out response on the issue of cowhocks and the right and wrong way to purchase a breeding dog, but after seeing hexe's fabulous post totally disregarded, I've come to the conclusion my time is better spent nailing jello to a tree or introducing Brittany to a kettle.

IDK Kelly......Carlos just told me that I was waisting my time trying to be "diplomatic and informative". 
My mom used to say to me......"the deaf cannot hear...so why do you yell?...the blind cannot see...so why make them read?....and the truly stupid cannot learn....so why try to teach?".......guess sometimes....she was right.

Amen, Robin.