Lets Breed Underage Dogs without Hip Certs and Titles - Page 12

cgageturner, I agree to a point. I don't believe many of these "oops" litter are really accidents. On the other hand, there are some that definitely are and I know the people well enough to know they would never intentionally have allowed it. Dogs are escape artists, people have to leave town and dogs are left w/a sitter who misses things, etc.

That was the case w/one of my buyer's situations. The bitch was young and he didn't know she cycled 3x a year yet; he had it on the calendar for the time he expected it, had to leave on business, and the neighbor didn't recognize what was going on. Not only that, but they wouldn't have been able to access that kennel and separate those dogs w/out the owner present...no way. So, while I don't agree w/keeping 2 dogs in one large run alone when not home, I don't think the person was all that irresponsible in terms of breeding. They were shocked when she came into heat that early but obviously the damage had already been done. 

I have heard stories of dogs getting at each other through fences...I believe "oops" happens sometimes, though (knock on wood), it's never happened to me (well, except w/my 2-legger, lol). My latest pup was an "oops" from someone I respect very much and she sold them as "oops" puppies. This was a planned litter, but not for this heat. A family member allowed it (unintentionally). These dogs are titled, very well bred, and carefully managed. I can't be too hard on someone like that for "$hi+ happens" situations. 

I also agree that there are intentional litters that people know they're going to take heat for so they pretend they were accidents. 

I agree w/Steve that many people don't know the true temperament of their dogs because they don't put them in situations to see it (stress, pressure, etc.) but on the other side of that coin, there are total spooks who get titled and you cannot ("you" in general) base a temperament on lack of or plethora of titles. I would still take a respected person's opinion or my own evaluation of a dog over a title as proof of stable temperament. Many pet owners have no freaking idea what their dogs are really like because they don't test them (and test can mean many things), and also many people who SHOULD know better, don't seem to. There are dogs people think are great, solid, stable dogs that I wouldn't feed. 

More excuses and fear-biting rhetoric from Daryl as expected.  Daryl, Brix was certainly sent to Ulf Kintzel for training and title for his HGH.  I advertise him as trained by Ulf, and I frequently recommend Ulf for training and evaluating dogs for HGH.  Ulf Kintzel did a fine job with my own-bred, raised and trained dog SG-Brix v Eichenluft HGH.  In 8 months he took a dog who had never worked sheep, who was in fact not "herding lines" at all, to a HGH title on 300 sheep with a 94 V score and High in Trial under Herr Wilfried Scheld, HGH judge and Koermeister.

Brix, as with ALL of my dogs, was never bred until he was working titled.  And on top of that, he is trained regularly in Schutzhund (tracking, obedience, protection) and he is SG in conformation, and breed surveyed. 

The topic is breeders who breed underage dogs without hip certs and titles.  I import lots of dogs already titled, for my program.  And I title lots of my own-bred dogs before I breed them.  That would describe some other breeders who do the right thing by the breed (and who don't breed underage, untitled, un health tested dogs) - but it wouldn't describe you Daryl. 

Next?  I certainly don't have anything to hide or feel sorry for in my program.  In fact I'm very proud of it.  I'm even in the process of updating my "honor roll" page on my website, which hadn't been updated in years - to add many more dogs from my program who have accomplished working titles.

What working titles did you accomplish on your dogs again Daryl?  OH!!  That's right I almost forgot - titles don't matter to you.  You can breed what you want to because you don't care.

molly

I am going to ask for the sake of the thread and the board that Molly and Darryl take some time to cool off and stop addressing each other for now, either directly or indirectly, on the message board.  Beyond this point I will be deleting your posts in their entirety if I think you are talking to, or about one another.

Please take it to PMs. 

Thanks for your cooperation,
zmod

-mod delete- it wasn't about who trains their own dogs.  But to really fully understand what you're breeding with, especially in a working venue you have little to no knowledge of, I would advise you do if you wish to promote your puppies based on that aptitude.

As a breeder, I think it's important to experience firsthand all the types of working venues you claim your pups suitable for.  Since this i s a breed that's supposed to be a jack of all trades, then there's no point in overspecializing working emphasis in only one particular area.  I devoted years to learning schutzhund (not competing), but my focus is broader, and I'm not breeding "for" sport dogs.  People who are serious about competing with sport dogs don't look to this side of the pond for their prospect, so there's no point in breeding for that.  And if you do, good luck placing them in "mere" companion animal homes, unless they're of the watered down version of the breed.

So, I'm going to breed for ME personally, and condemn me all you like.  I don't have to "prove" my dogs, because I don't care if ANYONE else gets them or not.  Doing so allows me a much better chance of getting what I want from my own breedings than some other breeder's washouts or lower aptitude pups because you're lower on their friends list.  It's rare enough to acquire a dog I find exceptional, and I'm not wasting time playing "charades" when I can get better results with what I've got, and more efficiently that most large scale breeders can accomplish.

In today's breeding world, most pups are a real disappointment, and most people can't see the forest through all the trees with the "system" fogging it all up.

mods, you are trying to referee a match in one corner a breeder who proofs their dogs in every way possible and in the other corner a complete fakker who does absolutely nothing but run a yakker.

daryl, I have left you alone for several months. But I see by your "decades" comment that you are still butt hurt at me.

i mean really, dude, do you honestly think that buying a dog or two makes you an authority on the GSD.

You offer endless advice on things you have never done and speak poorly about dogs that you will never match.


JMHO,
Rik


P.S. sorry for calling you "dude". got you confused with another azzhat here. 

Rik, does trotting 20 + hock walkers around a ring for 20 + years make you one?  You say the same thing over and over and over and over and over again.  Show the world what you got.  Ya? Well obviously if the world thinks the American GSD is a good example of the breed, or many of the GSL's are a good example of the breed, or many of the WL, the WORLD doesn't know squat about the GSD either.  The world is run by greed, I wouldn't trust it's judgement for a second.

I don't care how well your dog does in a show ring, that to me doesn't mean you have a good GSD or know what one is.

  It is painfully obvious we all have MUCH different opinions of what a GSD should be, so if Daryl wants to breed ( FOR HIMSELF) what he thinks is the best example of a GSD, than KUDOS to him, for I'd bet his example is a  heck of alot better than the majority of those out showing the world what they've got.

So why the big deal here? If most people actually worked their dogs instead of relying on titles then xrays wouldn't be nearly as necessary and the age thing wouldn't be much of an issue either. Titles should be the absolute minimum on evaluating a dog and certainly not a measure if they are to bred or not. If you want top sport dogs then look at scores not just titles. If you want working dogs then don't even bother looking at scores or titles. You guys are like a bunch of five year olds. LOL

I bred my female to a male down the street. I never saw him work, but every single time I met him he would protect himself by rolling over and peeing on himself. I thought it was cool! He wasn't scared and didn't bark at me like a Yorkie. He is smart and confident and knows that peeing on himself gets me to leave him alone. I hope all the puppies do this. His owner told me that the fact that he only has one testicle makes him very tough because he works very hard to produce

Sporty
This is not the first time you have said what you have in your post above, I do agree with you about Scores, but to get Scores you have to earn a Title first, Unless your dog already has that Title.
But you keep talking about other types of work.
So tell me what other types of work should the Working Shepherd be doing if we all STOP doing the SPORT side of the breed, I am really interested to know.
 Steve1

RS, I care less what daryl breeds, what direction he goes in or what dogs he owns. Does not affect what I do in the least.

It has been quite a few years since I have owned or trotted an Am. s/l around the ring. When I did it, I was moderately successful. There is no doubt in my mind that I will be moderatly successful in my direction now.


I say the same thing over and over because what we are talking about here is the GSD. Anyone with a pet can sign up here and offer expert opinions to those who do not know better.


What it comes down to, is what has the dog done. Nothing else matters. All I have said is that daryl is a non stop yakker running with no dog to back it up.  And while we are on the subject, what have your dogs accomplished.

Rik