2-2 Line/In breeding - Page 11

think we also could see difference in healthproblems in showlines versus workinglines, I sold several pups in holland to people who owned a showline before that and heard a lot of horrorstories, that I dont hear about in workinglines

Jenni78 - when you made the comment about Maddox you said there was no linebreeding until generation 6 and that was just two dogs.

My post is just fact with no further comment and, therefore, it was not impertinent.

I would remind you that many of your comments were off this thread.

Mackenzie

Mackenzie, you're missing the point. Naturally, every dog a dog is linebred on will also have dogs behind them. I thought everyone knew that. Madox is actually 4,4-7 on Lorett, btw. But, I was talking about Madox (one D), not his sire, so I didn't mention his sire's 3-3 on Lorett. I do apologize. Not sure where you got 5-5 from, but that is not factual as you suggested.

AGAIN, the point and the title of the thread is LINE/INbreeding...suggesting CLOSE linebreeding. If we are going to get into saying a dog is in/linebred if ANY of his relatives are linebred, well...I give up. LOL. You do know that all purebred dogs go back to the same founders, right? ;-)

Duke, I agree, in that when breeding for performance, of course you need to emphasize health more than when breeding for color and aesthetics, but it is certainly possible to have healthy showlines...I won't be a SL hater.

The true numbers are unknown on the various plagues experienced. Lucky depends on who is making the criteria.

I don't think it really is about luck. The accounting methods are flawed, especially when the onset of disease comes after the reproductive years.

So now, what is it about having a good 'mother line" that has been the topic of discussion Here on THIS forum by a few of the' ,most knowledgeable ' breeders here, or so they say, but now a little back peddling about out crossing.
Isn t the mother line, dogs in common or is it just a good 'mother' dog?
Ain't that what creates 'a line', or is my comprehension skills THAT lacking?

Define "after the reproductive years." I would say that's 8+ for a female, 9+ for a male, give or take??? (Going by able to reproduce, not what might be morally ideal!)

By any large breed standard, that is a senior-aged dog. Aren't we talking about "plagues" plaguing during their primes? Those are the things I'd like to eliminate or greatly minimize, and once you get there, then work at overall longevity and vigor.

Kitkat, haven't a clue what you're saying or how to answer. Where did dam line enter into the inbreeding/linebreeding discussion? Who is back-pedALing and in what regard? Lost.

I can't speak for the OP, but when I take ownership of an animal, I make no distnction as to its value being centered on the prime years. I cherish all moments being shared by my dogs within my life. Any debilitating genetic condition has its own heartbreak. Longevity has always been at the top of my list of desired traits.

Where in the sam hill did we get "value" from "reproductive years" (which I quoted from you)?

We can expect any old animal to suffer some maladies, just as we can any old person. That's aging. What we ought to concentrate on, imo, are eliminating the things that rob us of them young, cause them immense pain and suffering, and then once we've tackled that, or even better, simultaneously, concentrate on overall longevity and VIGOR. Who wants longevity if they're miserable the last 4 years of a 15yr life? I want strong and healthy right up until the end, ideally. It would be fantastic if they would all die peacefully in their sleep at 20, but that's not reality.

The point is that compartmentalizing as you have done, Sam and his Hill not being consulted, is a subtle way of moving the goal posts.

Longevity insists on good health for the dog at all stages.

Tone down the outrage. This is a common desire for all dog owners who do not profit from their ownership of animals.

Riiiight, Beetree. Because dog owners who "profit from their ownership of animals" must hate their dogs and want them to suffer and die miserable, untimely deaths and therefore have no need for longevity. Got it.