If you had a Magic Wand.... - Page 11

You're right...you've had access to those all this time and still have no idea who I am. If you did, you'd easily look me up and find plenty of pictures of my dogs and information about my breeding kennel. Yet somehow...no one has figured that out yet. I'm assuming its because the admins aren't really going to give out emails and ip addresses as it would be a huge violation of privacy.

points tell you nothing of a dog, if its clublevel or world level,same, good day, bad day, what Judge, wheater etc

one male scored 288, the other one 252,, which is better match for my female ???

@Sunny

 

@BW  "But now it's ... make a bit of a name for yourself, breed a few litters out of titled parents,... people will think you've done the work yourself and then ..."

Well yes that may well be true of some breeders - but there is nothing new about it.

The "But now its" isn't that appropriate, because that has been happening since god was a boy !  Partly its the laziness of intent that you are getting at;  but partly it is also because people in the breed (like people everywhere, in any hobby) get older. What some could once do in terms of training and titling their own dogs, they are not necessarily still able to do.  But they are still interested in the breed; they are still interested either in allowing new generations of owners to have opportunities with the stock they produce; and/or they are still interested in the  money they get from puppy sales.  I realise you like to see everything in black and white, and that you don't think much of learning lessons from the past, but these questions can all be quite complex.

 

Some ways for buyers to be avoiding the worst cons in this system is to do their homework properly and thoroughly research the breeders, phone or go and meet them and talk to them at some length, and get an idea of WHY this is the situation with any given litter - be prepared to say No, instead of buying first and regretting later.  But they need to be aware that there are some circumstances where you get a trade-off of long experience to set against the HOT parents.

BW, again, I agree with a lot you said, but I'm not nearly as cynical as you are. I can totally understand why some people choose pet homes over sport homes and some of them are quite knowledgeable in their own right and maybe they could place more in working homes, but so many "working home" are "wannabe working homes" who treat dogs terribly. I admit I am far too soft to take the "whatever it takes" approach in putting them in working homes. Some working homes are excellent. Some are terrible. I base my decision on the individual home. I do my best but I've made mistakes. I would rather give a well-meaning novice a chance, personally. We all start somewhere. If I hadn't had help in getting my first breeding dog, I would've no doubt ended up with lesser quality and taken a lot longer to get where I wanted to be.

Sometimes, when you give that "enthusiast" pet buyer a nice dog, they are inspired to do something with it. From my first litter, I had a guy asking for a pet. He was not an idiot, so I said sure, and sold him the calmest pup in the litter, had good nerves, but was coated. He decided to do IPO. The dog is now titled to IPO3, FH. My point is, if we want more people to do sport, so-called "sport breeders" need to give people a chance at a decent dog. I think it's horrible when people dump poor quality pups in pet homes, with the people least-equipped to deal with the problems.

Sorry for the ramble, but the point is that you cannot blame all the problems on one subset of GSD lover. For every wonderful sport home, there is a guy whose dogs literally live in crates in the basement. For every wonderful pet home, there is a home where the dog gets nothing it needs for physical and mental exercise and ends up put down for problematic behavior when it would likely have flourished in a proper home.

Joan, LOL. That's a great pic. We had a similar one where a Capri daughter taught someone a lesson when they came in through the window of the daughter's bedroom. Hilarious part is there were 2 GSDs, but one was crated. They were both loose when the family came home. Loose must've let the locked one out for help. There was blood spatter on the ceiling, even.

Hund...for decades the Germans have been able to figure out how to continue to train and title their breeding stock even when they weren't able to do it themselves. You're just using one of the other excuses that breeders all over the United States and other countries use instead of just admitting they can continue to produce mediocre puppies for pet homes without having to train and title their dogs. Some (including many on this forum) refuse to admit that a middle of the road dog, with decent nerve strength, and the correct connections will get that dog placed in a police program or department without any issues. In the US...it's definitely connections and knowing people (and probably a puppy for half the market rate) that will get that dog placed in a police department more than the dog's super amazing drive or ability.

At it's core, it's what Jenni described...it just depends on the type of home you want for your puppies. If they can make $2000 a pup, selling to pet homes, they'll do it. Many today KNOW they shouldn't place dogs into sport or working homes because there's a large chance the dog will wash out due to what they're breeding and they don't care. They can easily sell 20-30 or more puppies a year to pet homes and make a good living dealing with people that don't have anywhere near the experience to understand what they have on their couch is nothing like what a GSD should be.

Jenni, this female saved her owner, and while she was tearing the guy's stomach inside out, her owner was punching the intruder in the face.
Friend of mine, who happens to be a forensics detective, brought their Major from their PD to pick up a pup last week...we talked about the dog saving her owner, after looking at the pics, my friend said that' was a lot of bleeding....dog probly saved future victims from the scum.

A lot of people don't believe the gsd can still do the job of family protector....

Here's a better picture of the female after the fight.

Very nice, Joanro!

She's your K9 Maverick's half sister, Cliff. :-)

Joan
I´d be more than proud ( in case I´d be the breeder or the owner ...)

But, honestly, Bav is right. Although there are some single breeders breeding good working dogs without former official proof of working abilities, breeders of this kind are the exception, not the norm.

Within these breeders ( not testing their stock ) you normally find two species:

1. is selling puppies "for companion" and families" - they don´t care about working abilities at all, in the best case they sell health tested pets ( a big market )

2. is selling puppies "out of titled ancestors" - most often one or more grandparents are titled imports, once in a while they introduce "fresh titled blood", but they don´t test their home raised dogs, they use the titles as sales pitch ( a big market, too, because 99% of the buyers will never train and test the dogs they bought )

I am tired of all the excuses - either the IPO titles are "too easy to achieve" or "there is no club".

In case the IPO titles are that easy to achieve, it should be a pleasure for every breeder to show the real quality of his/her dogs.
In case there is no local club, I ask myself why ? The answer: There is no interest.

Think about all these breeders in your country owning 5 or more brood bitches, that´s 25+ puppies/year, that´s 25+ new German Shepherd Dog owners every year, but still not enough people for a club!?! 40 000 registered German Shepherd Dogs year after year, but no clubs?

Out of this amount of dogs Europe should import American dogs, but it´s just the opposite...

I don´t know if it´s plain laziness or just lack of knowledge, but it is what it is for decades now.

 

Susie, please clarify this for me ? Are you agreeing with Bav's generalisation that "the Germans have been able to figure out how to train and title their breeding stock even if they weren't able to do it themselves ", or agreeing with him that almost all US and other non-German breeders are just using previous titles as a sales pitch ?

Apart from the obvious difference with Germany having more national support for IPO and a better organised system of local clubs, which ought to at least sometimes make it possible to get someone to take over for one, plus the respective sizes of the two countries, so that whatever happens in Germany is a bit comparing apples to oranges, I noticed that BW made his sweeping statement without giving us any detail of how German breeders manage never

(?) to fall into the "too old to do all the training any more" category.