Definition of Civil Drive for Police/P. Protection Dogs - Page 11

Hans, I know police send K9s, but this is PP.

Prager,
              The 5 parts to the civil zone...........

1.  Aggression...... ( intimidation and posturing with the intend of biting)

2. obedience ...( how well the dog takes to being subordinate to his trainer)

3. fighting drive... ( willingness to stay in the fight and fighting itself)

4. Guarding and  Protecting ...(protecting some thing from others)

5.  Fear.. ( The most potent precursor of androgen's) here it is looked at as antecedent for fighting
and a trait for how well it is handle under pressure.

I like my dogs collected up of all 5 parts... before performing a task.

*** aggression and fighting drive are different ....... a dog can be aggressive
and still lack fighting drive. A dog can have little aggression until the fight starts and
show  tremendous fighting drive.

GSDFan & Prager...Thanks for the videos!  

It seemed like the decoy was moving way too much when the dog was on the sleeve.  Is that normal?  Is it advanced training?

"I like my dogs collected up of all 5 parts... before performing a task."

MM, what exactly is meant by that phrase?

darylehret.....

Collection is a term that describes the moment
one is in sync with several components in order
to perform a task to the best of one ability.

When I am riding my horse and she feels
relaxed coming into a tight turn, her head
is down, back is not hallowed out and stiff,
but in sync with her other muscles. She is
doing it as if I were not there, or if I was a
part of her. Not just along for the ride.

To the police dog ...it is the same with me as
a guide.

Max,  I think you seem like a hell of a guy, but I think you are out in space on this one.  This term isn't very hard.  A dog that will bite without equipment is civil.  Working a dog without equipment is civil agitation.  I think your "zone"  may be just that.  As Rod Tidwell once said, "the quan".  I understand, at least I think I do.  Sports athletes all get into the zone now and again.  I played sports and I understand the feeling of being in the zone, but I don't believe that it relates to the term, "civil".    If you want to see a civil dog, go check out my last link on the "about turn" thread.

No argument, but think that our ideas of terminology differ.  That is a downfall in dog training.  Many people have differeing ideas of what Hard, Civil, Defense, etc all mean. 

Here, Max. A link for you.  you can watch the whole thing or FF to 5:58, where he talks about civil.
www.youtube.com/watch

Don,
           Stay with me awhile, don't listen to what the dumb down version
of civil drive is.....It is a zone......I don't have to look any farther than about
15 feet to see a civil dog, two are lying here as I type.....But the most
unusual civil dog was a 10 week old rottweiler female I had in the 80's.
...A very well known breeder from Belgium doubted it at that age. And I
would not have believed it if I did not see it with my own eyes....She was
DDR Rottweiler off Geoshoff.

I  have the advantage of having done what most people will be trying
to do for the next 20 years.....Until you understand this zone,...it will be
very hard if not impossible to achieve any great handlership.

Sorry Max, I agree that civil drive isn't a zone. Civil drive how ever you want to define it is a dog that will take the fight to a man without equipment. The definitions and all the little pieces of the puzzle don't matter to me. I want a dog that is confident and enjoys the fight. If the genetics are in the dog, the dog can be built up thru training to believe they are unbeatable. The harder an assailant fights the more fight comes out of the dog. Not all civil dogs fall into this category, but the ones that do have a certain look in their eye, almost begging you to do fuck with them. Not a zone it's a mind set.

IMO fight drive and civil drive are mutually inclusive, unless you have a dog that bites in fear.