SV going to change the rules - Page 10

Mc so you see yourself that it isnot about the training only,

I trained and titled a dog to IPO 1 for a client, that dog had no food and no balldrive, the first month the dog didnot like me and did not like the training, from there we went up and did ok, but its a looooong way for only a passing score on a dog and why put a dog trough this only to be allowed to breed

I said long time ago to just quit the bitework as a requirement for showdogs, instead of getting those videos out and having nighttrails to title those dogs, showdogs are for showing and their pups will mainly go to family homes I suppose, so why bother with the IPO stuff

right now the weaker dogs will title anyway/somehow and breed and it wont be different in the future

Mac I was to train a zamp son a few years ago could do nothing with him . Obedience was ok took time as drive was so low nerves very week so bite won't was in possible gave him back . He was sent to a person I know with in a week he sent him back too. Now the dog just in the yard playing with the kids

on a more positive note, I come across some really nice showlines in Czech republic, had one last month, IPO1 decent points, clear head, nice balanced drives, this one could go places, he went to a family home however

https://youtu.be/OVeBVzNDZ-w

Duke 1965

Firstly, the bitework is not the only test of character. Any character weakness that makes a dog unsuitable to breed from should be picked up in the Koerung and disqualified. Secondly, we have to look carefully at why dogs achieved low pass qualification. Was because the trainer was unable, because of limited skills, to take the dog further. Did the trainer try to take the dog forward too quickly. Should the trainer considered whether they should have used a different method to train for better results. Was the dog not really mature enough to go make a better score which is a call to be made by owners/trainers. Any one of these should make for a better appraisment of the dog because their character may well be strong enough to breed from once they overcome any difficulties from training. A pass is still a pass.

What does the qualification prove? Simple, it shows that the dog has learning power and with proper development may improve on scores as they pass through from BH to IPO. The examination also is how each dog responds to, most importantly, a willingness to accept control by the handler. As long as the dog is able to prove a competent performance within the acceptable range of scores for a pass then that is good enough. It is a long road to competition levels.

Mackenzie

When I am interested in a dog I don´t care about the points but about the overall performance ( I always try to watch the dogs I am interested in during training, if possible from the early beginning up to the final result).

Breeding dogs is about genetics, not about points, I´d be fine in case IPO would be about passed/failed ( edited, because I forgot: instead of points with a detailed description of temperament, drives ), but humans want to compete, and they want to win - so
there are points in IPO
and
there are places in the show ring ( we forgot that a "V" is a "V" )

Let´s forget about the "points" - in case there is no more IPO there is almost no more evaluation possible.
ZAP2 right now will include some tracking, obedience, bitework, the breed survey hasn´t been lowered yet (but for how long? Let´s bet - I say not more than 5 years from now on, even less ).

Take a look at ZAP1 - some nice features ( sudden noise, agility ), but to the same time they are looking for a "friendly" dog, they test for prey, not for defense, the dog is asked to play with a stranger ...).
No "valuation" as of yet, only stating the "status quo" - but again: For how long?

For me it´s "testing for active pet qualities", not testing for "working dogs".

Same with ZAP2 - although there are no final rules published yet, it seems to end like an " IPO temperament test". All the parts where some pressure needs to be involved seem to become lowered.

Everybody involved in working dogs knows that it´s not difficult to train a dog to track, to follow basic obedience, or to "bite" -
it´s about pressure, the need to cap the drives, the conflict, and the ability of the dog to overcome all of this.
Because of that IPO is very important for the breed, and for me the "title" is the minor achievement a GSD has to be able to achieve.

For me the only reason why a lot of "our" (pedigreed) GSDs are still "better" than the "rest of the world population" is the IPO/breed survey/show rating requirement.
Although "hard liners" do laugh about "basic" IPO routine it still makes the difference...the worst dogs are weeded out, no matter what.

But that´s just me, and obviously I am not the "German majority"...

A lot of people on this board think about IPO as too easy, not worth the effort.
Everybody who ever trained and titled a dog knows that during the "IPO voyage" he learned more about dogs as he will ever be able to learn in his backyard...
There are exceptions to the rule, but they are "exceptions"
The honest breeders may weed out some dogs, the scrupelous breeders will try to cheat - but everybody really interested and involved will know...
And that's a lot more than " nothing ".

I have a question. Why does it seem that a lot of folks think that because a dog is a "pet" that precludes them from doing anything with their dog?
I've had plenty of GSD "pets" I titled all of them to one extent or the other in IPO and show and they were all "just" my "pets".

I think it's often the lens people are talking through i.e., if you are an owner you see the breed as pet in a different light than if you are a responsible breeder. Most owners look to their German Shepherders as pets first and foremost....most responsible breeders look at German Shepherders as working dogs that can incidentally be great pets.

GSD911, all over the world people tend to define "pet dog" differently...

For me a pet dog is a dog I don´t need to take much care of ( training, obedience, entertainment ) to keep the dog "calm and friendly" at home and in society.
For me the GSD is a working dog breed, that said you have to "work" them to keep them in shape not only physically, but mentally, too.
A bored GSD may become a nightmare, even a liability, a bored pet dog may become neurotic, but normally ( although there are exceptions ) no liability...
Almost all GSDs are able to be "companion dogs", too, all of my dogs have been my companions, but they have been no pets at all.
A well bred GSD does have a lot of intense drives, and the owner needs to satisfy them, be it the usual way of dogsport as a whole ( good for body and mind ), be it extensive hiking, bicycle riding, jogging, whatever, but those combined with well structured obedience.
Normally a pet dog, when bored, may become a pain in the ass, but not dangerous, whereas a GSD may become ...
I guess there is no "formal" explanation for "pet dog".

ZPT is the FCI "working breed test"

If you look on the SV page, the link states ZAP, but the video states ZPT.

Dogs with ZAP/ZPT cannot VA.

ZAP makes it easier for people to trial their dogs in venues with other breeds, since in many countries and places in the US, IPO clubs are hard to find.

It really doesn't matter.

The puppy temperament test is just a starting point (9-13 months), it reinforces the temperament characteristics of the breed standard.

To continue in IPO, the dog must still pass BH.

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