I'll vouch for Bazi Urbecke's line from my own experience, my male Zamp von der Urbecke's mother is a littermate to Bazi, her name is Bia von der Urbecke and she is herself a SchH3. In his 3 generation pedigree there are all SchH3 dogs except for 3 SchH2 females, no SchH1s at all. Zamp has 5 SchH3 titles and one IPO3 title with very good scores and was the 2009 Youth Universal Sieger for Germany. No I'm not so bold as to nominate my own dog, but I did want to add a little bump for Bazi's line :) The Urbecke kennel loves to work their dogs, Bia is still working at 7 years old with the 12 year old granddaughter of Mr. Stenner, just got a BH last weekend on Bia, she is starting at the beginning with her and going all the way like her big sister did, her sister put the last four SchH3 titles on my Zamp and is the one that won the Universal youth title with him, that family loves to work their dogs. Another female they have Indira von der Urbecke, at ten years old last year earned another SchH3 title with the older sister. Wish I had time to be one of your ten volunteers, I am eager to see your results :) Great idea and thanks for doing it!! Have fun guys!!

Barbie

By the way when we reach results and analysis Darylheret can help, he's good at tabulation and charts.

Ibrahim

VKGSDs,

It's OK, you can pick a dog.

Ibrahim, that is a good suggestion. There is a dog that I would like to add, simply because he has produced a very good LE dog in my area. But he doesn't meet Randy's criteria, which I'm sure will be expanded as we go. I'll wait until his very successful sire is mentioned.

I really view this as a collective sharing of knowledge. hopefully beneficial to novices like myself. Folks with Randy's experience don't have to share anything and very few do publicly. I appreciate any education and accept it for what it is.

Rik

I'll add a couple more to keep this thing moving. You have Ute TeMar the Universal Siegerin. There's Lauis Moorbeck, BSP participant. I'm also adding Indo Geesthugel. Indo placed second in a performance event as the only showline dog. The event was judged by Gary Hanrahan.

Here's a list of dogs that have stood sided by side with some of the best working line dogs out there. Is it a fluke? Is it possible there is a common bond between these dogs? If there are some common bonds, were any of these dogs able to consistently reproduce it?

These questions are asked over and over again and again and always go unanswered. Many many people know the answer, they just don't bother discussing it. We will see through this exercise, not only the dogs that preserve the working character within the breed but the breeders that recognize working ability and actually incorporate it into their breeding program. These are usually breeders with their own vision breeding not to the highest placing dogs, but the dogs they feel are the best dogs to breed to.

There's still time to add a few if anyone has one.

Let's move to the next step. Let's break down the pedigrees of these dogs and see what dogs are common. We can then look for other examples of excellent working dog that are not on the list and see if there are others. These would be the police dogs, dogs that won performance awards,  etc.

Let's start with the meat of the research. Look at the pedigrees and let's start identifying the common dogs in the pedigree.

VA8 (USA) Xasko von der Roten Matter

VA1 UNIVERSAL SIEGER Triumphs Gucci

These two are brothers from same sire. They both go back to Frei vom Hirschel who in turn go back to Canto von Arminius son of Canto von der Wienerau.

V Jasper vom kleinen Teich

VA1 (USA) V6 (BSZS) Bazi von der Urbecke

They both share Jeck vom Noricum on the Sire side

That's a good observation. There's a match. Let's keep working with the dogs close in the pedigree. When we go back as far as Frei. The genes can be diluted. Are there any others?

Jeck Bildeiche go back to brother of Jeck vom Noricum ( Tenno vom Noricum)

SG Aeros vom Heulenluft

Aklso goes back to Jeck vom Noricum on the Sire side and on the mother side too  and also Frei Hirschel on mother side