Definition of Civil Drive for Police/P. Protection Dogs

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by Prager on 04 November 2010 - 00:11

Mainlymax
I am sorry if I make you to repeat it but what are the 5 parts you look for in civil dog?
Sorry. Can not find where you are talking about it.
Prager Hans

by Ace952 on 04 November 2010 - 02:11

Very informative thread.
Thansk for the videos Prager....good to see something.

Now I just need to be able to tell when I watch videos what is good technique and bad technique with regards to the decoy working the dog.

by Renofan2 on 04 November 2010 - 03:11

This is a great thread and I am learning alot. After 3 years I still consider myself as a newbie in Schutzhund and have had a chance to watch Melanie and her dogs in PSA a bit. I find the differences very interesting. I always fround the the comments working in prey or defense and the dog is civil very confusing, however I think I am starting to get it after reading this thread. I will probably need to read it a few more times before I really get it.

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge, and Prager I do appreciate you sharing your videos.l

Cheryl

by GSDfan on 04 November 2010 - 12:11

Ace...I spent over an hour trying to find a thread I remembered with bad training. Finally found it and the video's were taken down...shame would have been a good one for you. The owner was probably not proud of them once he found out so I understand, the dog wasn't bad...just the training. Checked youtube briefly but couldn't find much in the way of really bad to show you.

by GSDfan on 04 November 2010 - 12:11

Ah here's a good one....

Civil aggression-passive decoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ce_0nZ9bPA

by Prager on 04 November 2010 - 12:11

Here is a video which I have found on You tube.This video is pretty intense so faint of heart may get upset. It is not politically correct touchy feely but very realistic to view. Good video,Good dog, Good agitation, but at least one mistake in system as far as development of "civil dog". At least as viewed on this video. I do not think that this mistake would hurt this dog but it is a mistake in the system. Can you point it out? .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9Ea1LWsGjE&feature=related
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

by GSDfan on 04 November 2010 - 13:11

Hans...agreed, not my preference of training but it's a good dog. Mistake, I'll take a stab at your quiz lol.... I would have liked to see the decoy show the dog he intimidated him instead of continued pressure/aggitation when he re-engaged after the slip....or at least run away.

Depending on how far along the dog is I'd like to see the decoy not so hecktic at least when the dog is on the bite. A more experienced dog is fine for them to experience the possible "real" behavior of a human getting bit....but this guy is putting pressure from beginning to end...IMO not good for most dogs...this one is pretty strong, especially if he's rather green.

by Don Corleone on 04 November 2010 - 13:11

Well one thing that has always made me scratch my head, is why in PP would you send your dog on a fleeing person? #1 The guy is leaving, hence the dog has already done the job and #2 why would you let your protection leave your side? If I carried a gun, i wouldn't shoot a guy in the back if he ran away, and I sure as hell wouldnt throw my gun at the guy as he was fleeing, leaving me defenseless.

by Prager on 04 November 2010 - 14:11

GSD fan no that is not it . Dog is really advanced ( as you can see if you click at the end of the video on part 2 -left upper corner) thus it is OK . Even so you are close.
Don. No This is not about tactics and legality. This is a question about developing through training of a "civil"dog.
There is mistake in training system.
As far as sending dog in PP situation by private citizen there would be none or few reasons but police have many. Also it is a reward of the dog by prey in the training session.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

by GSDfan on 04 November 2010 - 14:11

Alright here's one of my video's... This is not PPD or PSD, it is sport training (PSA), but does fall within the "civil" topic so figured I'd post under the IMO "good training" category for Ace.

This was one of the first times she was on a hidden sleeve...grip was very firm, I would have liked to see her bite fuller, but just needed more work. This is the first time doing the PSA "carjack" scenario (first half), as well as the first time we had her on the bicep...target work (second half).

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