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by LadyFrost on 20 August 2010 - 13:08
Hans..you are like a magnet for idiotism....
by ghostly on 20 August 2010 - 13:08
Ok, what I was trying to do was get Hans to tell the whole truth about these dogs, but when you get only half truths you are not getting the correct information you are seeking. And if you all like to hear the lies that he is telling you due to the dogs he has sold and won't tell what he truely knows than so be it.
I guess half truths are better than total lies and for that Han I will leave you alone to come here and tell people what they like to hear Although I enjoyed the picture thread that he posted, Specially due to having family there in Prague
www.shepherdsbydesignk9.com
I guess half truths are better than total lies and for that Han I will leave you alone to come here and tell people what they like to hear Although I enjoyed the picture thread that he posted, Specially due to having family there in Prague
www.shepherdsbydesignk9.com
by gagsd4 on 20 August 2010 - 15:08
I think the point is, one need not be rude in making points.
Rather than coming across as trying to clarify facts, many of the posts I see (and certainly not just on this topic) come across as hateful and snide.
In service to the breed... one might say: Sire X produced Dog A with OFA moderate hips when bred to Bitch Y. Give some facts, and then we can look at the combined pedigrees and see where those dysplastic hips came from.
There are a lot of people on here with some really nice dogs, and if we can figure out how to share helpful information, whether or not we all agree, that would benefit us in the long run, yes?
--Mary
Rather than coming across as trying to clarify facts, many of the posts I see (and certainly not just on this topic) come across as hateful and snide.
In service to the breed... one might say: Sire X produced Dog A with OFA moderate hips when bred to Bitch Y. Give some facts, and then we can look at the combined pedigrees and see where those dysplastic hips came from.
There are a lot of people on here with some really nice dogs, and if we can figure out how to share helpful information, whether or not we all agree, that would benefit us in the long run, yes?
--Mary
by Prager on 20 August 2010 - 15:08
Ghostly why don't you point these lies to us your self. Spell them out. Just facts though. Rather then saying that I am lying and pimping dogs and telling people only what they want to hear . Can you point them to me ? I would like to learn. I do not know everything and maybe you can enlighten me. I really mean it. That is at least, in my opinion, purpose of this forum. Instead you are calling me a pimp and liar and throwing around bunch of hear says. In mean time I am giving here official statistics.
Also
I have never said that Mambo is a perfect dog. If I did that, then show me where. But saying that he should be avoided from breeding because he produced some bad hips out of hundreds of dogs is irresponsible and does disservice to the breed.
Statistic in Czech say 2009 83% HD free. And those are all dogs submitted and not that someone selected only good dogs submitted those. I just wish all dogs which you and anybody breeds could do that. Show me a dog which was bred several times and I show you bad hips he produced. I have looked at what you breed and you do not even bother to place HD results on your pedigrees on your website. What is up with that? And why don't you enter the hips on the dogs on your pedigree on PDB? If you are so concern about hips, then the pedigree on your website and dogs on your pedigrees which are PDB should reflect that and have complete info if available. Now isn't that a lie? Really,... I do not think so. I believe that you are just careless. But you know how it goes; do not throw rocks if you are living in a glass house. I could also show you some things which are not exactly perfect on your pedigree. Like combining Klara with Uran and others. I know that you are trying to breed good dogs and your pedigree reflect that there is definitive effort there. Which is very good. But I am not calling you liar and pimp when I see mistakes there. That is beneath my and beneath people's on this forum dignity. And also when I do see some mistakes on your pedigree I know that there are no perfect pedigrees same as there are no perfect dogs.
Well I leave it at that.........
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
Also
I have never said that Mambo is a perfect dog. If I did that, then show me where. But saying that he should be avoided from breeding because he produced some bad hips out of hundreds of dogs is irresponsible and does disservice to the breed.
Statistic in Czech say 2009 83% HD free. And those are all dogs submitted and not that someone selected only good dogs submitted those. I just wish all dogs which you and anybody breeds could do that. Show me a dog which was bred several times and I show you bad hips he produced. I have looked at what you breed and you do not even bother to place HD results on your pedigrees on your website. What is up with that? And why don't you enter the hips on the dogs on your pedigree on PDB? If you are so concern about hips, then the pedigree on your website and dogs on your pedigrees which are PDB should reflect that and have complete info if available. Now isn't that a lie? Really,... I do not think so. I believe that you are just careless. But you know how it goes; do not throw rocks if you are living in a glass house. I could also show you some things which are not exactly perfect on your pedigree. Like combining Klara with Uran and others. I know that you are trying to breed good dogs and your pedigree reflect that there is definitive effort there. Which is very good. But I am not calling you liar and pimp when I see mistakes there. That is beneath my and beneath people's on this forum dignity. And also when I do see some mistakes on your pedigree I know that there are no perfect pedigrees same as there are no perfect dogs.
Well I leave it at that.........
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by mtndawg on 20 August 2010 - 16:08
Ghostly...I'm on pins and needles over here waiting for your truths, data, and what not.
by darylehret on 20 August 2010 - 17:08
I have no idea what Mambo-jambo's going on, just don't draw me into this drama. I've told you before Chuck, this sort of lack of proffessionalism is only self-damaging. You seem to attract these sorts of troubles often.
by Dragongsd on 20 August 2010 - 18:08
Wow! Now it's who has the biggest rock wins, or let's pick sides and see who has the biggest team?
by mtndawg on 20 August 2010 - 18:08
I'm not picking teams. Just looking for the other half of the truth that satisfies my thirst for knowledge of the subject at hand.
by ghostly on 20 August 2010 - 18:08
Ok let me sugar coat my questions here so that I don't step upon anyones toes!
1} I asked about Mambo Z Pohranicni Straze in which the subject was not addressed with full truths, I was wondering why Mambo if he was such a good producer, why did the Czech sell him down the road and why the Policia kennels also sold all of his offspring. As you all know there are rumors and there are truths told about the dogs today. I do know that Hans had sold Mambo to a breeder in which will remain unknown so that we don't bring them into this. Out of the litters he has produced here in the U.S there have been some good dogs, but there have been a lot of really bad dogs produced thru his breeding and when I say bad I mean so bad that they needed to be put to sleep due to their issues
But you said in 2009 Mambo produced 83% HD free, but now that was for only 30 dogs. So maybe 3 or 4 litters at this point the statistics are not as good. And these stats could stem from the female that he was paired up with
Now I'm looking at the Stats for Mambo's sire ( Jupp) which I feel are worse 35 dogs 14- 0/0, 7 -1/1. 12 -2/2 and 2 that were 3/3
2) I believe Daryl asked about Faro Policia and with our kennel having dogs from Faro I would like to hear the good and the bad also as most of us would like to get away from the Klara's, Grisha's and of coarse Uran
Looking at the Stats for Faro in 2007 I see he only produced 6 pups in which 4 - 0/0 and 2- 1/1, makes me wonder why he wasn't bred more if he was suppose to be a great dog. I would like to hear more information on him.
3) Tamara was asking about Xero z Pohranicni Straze and the issues that followed his breeding, having a few dogs here with him in the pedigree only made me after purchasing the dogs turn around and retire one female and the male will be shipped out to be a parimeter dog and not bred.
Even when you bring good dogs to his pedigree there isn't enough strong dogs to offset Xero
Now in 2007 he produced 62 dogs which 36 - 0/0. 5 - 1/1, 12 - 2/2. and 9 -3/3 which stats are still not very good either, but this is just hips alone not even going into any other issues.
But these stats are only the breeding that took place outside the Policia and Z Pohranicni Straze kennels asa the breeding that took place in those kennels were not ever published as you and I both know
You bring up a good point as I don't have hip ratings on the PDB of my dogs and as you can see I have a few of dogs from one of the people you helped get started so as for bring Klara and Uran into my breeding you ought to look at it this way I purchased these dogs from people like yourself that sold them to me in good faith maybe not knowing what I should have.
Plus the site you were looking at I have changed from having a webmaster promising my site up and runnig correctly, that I decided to do it myself
The only thing I was trying to do was get the truth about these dogs without someone tip toeing around the questions asked
1} I asked about Mambo Z Pohranicni Straze in which the subject was not addressed with full truths, I was wondering why Mambo if he was such a good producer, why did the Czech sell him down the road and why the Policia kennels also sold all of his offspring. As you all know there are rumors and there are truths told about the dogs today. I do know that Hans had sold Mambo to a breeder in which will remain unknown so that we don't bring them into this. Out of the litters he has produced here in the U.S there have been some good dogs, but there have been a lot of really bad dogs produced thru his breeding and when I say bad I mean so bad that they needed to be put to sleep due to their issues
But you said in 2009 Mambo produced 83% HD free, but now that was for only 30 dogs. So maybe 3 or 4 litters at this point the statistics are not as good. And these stats could stem from the female that he was paired up with
Now I'm looking at the Stats for Mambo's sire ( Jupp) which I feel are worse 35 dogs 14- 0/0, 7 -1/1. 12 -2/2 and 2 that were 3/3
2) I believe Daryl asked about Faro Policia and with our kennel having dogs from Faro I would like to hear the good and the bad also as most of us would like to get away from the Klara's, Grisha's and of coarse Uran
Looking at the Stats for Faro in 2007 I see he only produced 6 pups in which 4 - 0/0 and 2- 1/1, makes me wonder why he wasn't bred more if he was suppose to be a great dog. I would like to hear more information on him.
3) Tamara was asking about Xero z Pohranicni Straze and the issues that followed his breeding, having a few dogs here with him in the pedigree only made me after purchasing the dogs turn around and retire one female and the male will be shipped out to be a parimeter dog and not bred.
Even when you bring good dogs to his pedigree there isn't enough strong dogs to offset Xero
Now in 2007 he produced 62 dogs which 36 - 0/0. 5 - 1/1, 12 - 2/2. and 9 -3/3 which stats are still not very good either, but this is just hips alone not even going into any other issues.
But these stats are only the breeding that took place outside the Policia and Z Pohranicni Straze kennels asa the breeding that took place in those kennels were not ever published as you and I both know
You bring up a good point as I don't have hip ratings on the PDB of my dogs and as you can see I have a few of dogs from one of the people you helped get started so as for bring Klara and Uran into my breeding you ought to look at it this way I purchased these dogs from people like yourself that sold them to me in good faith maybe not knowing what I should have.
Plus the site you were looking at I have changed from having a webmaster promising my site up and runnig correctly, that I decided to do it myself
The only thing I was trying to do was get the truth about these dogs without someone tip toeing around the questions asked
by Sam Spade on 20 August 2010 - 19:08
Well, let me just add this. Do you think Bill Ford Jr. Knows everything about building a car? Probably not. That is why he has engineers, etc. Running a business doesn't make you knowledgable about production.
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