Please Help! Veterinary Advice Desperately Needed.

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by Bhaugh on 06 February 2010 - 00:02

Im sorry to hear about your dog. Since the liver levels are elevated I would watch which antibiotics are used and try to find ones that will bypass the liver to breakdown. If you can aspirate the mass to get out as much of the fluid as possible and give the IV antibiotics you might get a handle on this. We are all thinking good things for you and your dog.

by hexe on 06 February 2010 - 01:02

Thanks, Sunsilver. I couldn't remember whether or not it had been done, and didn't want to scroll back through the thread to try and find it if someone could recall it readily.

Sabrina, if you can lay your hands on milk thistle extract, and you can get her to take it, it has been shown to be helpful for improving liver function. It comes in capsule form, powder form or liquid extract, so dosage depends on what form you're able to get and what the concentration of the specific product is--but the literature reports no adverse effects save for those patients who had allergic reactions, so it appears to be safe enough that overdosages have not been a concern.

This is an awfully young dog for a cardiac hemangiosarcoma; not impossible, but it would certainly be unusual.

by mobjack on 06 February 2010 - 01:02

Hodie, yes you are thinking exactly what I was trying to describe. IV antibiotics were required. As this was ongoing for many months the doctors never did find out what had caused the infection or the fluid. I don't think they ever figured out which came first in fact. But fortunately, the final treatment did work.

Sunsilver that is exactly the stuff and what they used it for. No cancer though.

You two are great, I knew you'd know what I was talking about. I can think this stuff clear as day but can't ever put it in words properly.

I hope they can find something to do for Sam when the results come back.
I really really wish she had access to better vet care.

by hexe on 06 February 2010 - 02:02

According to the literature I've been able to review, German Shepherd Dogs are predisposed to both right atrial hemangiosarcoma (which can cause peridcardial effusion) and idiopathic pericardial effusion. The mean age for the hemangiosarcoma tends to run toward middle age at the low end; I have not seen any ages mentioned for the idiopathic effusion, however. I've included some links to some recent published info on pericardial effusion which may be helpful.

http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/scivac/2005/Miller1_en.pdf?LA=1

http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/scivac/2009/Ellison4_en.pdf?LA=1

http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/laveccs/2009/Mazzaferro2.pdf?LA=1

https://app.vetconnect.com/5min/data/09270927.htm

by hodie on 06 February 2010 - 04:02

These are all great articles Hexe. Whatever is really going on needs much more treatment I think than the dog is getting. Also, except for a few of the conditions mentioned, the dog, at 18 months old, is very young for a lot of these conditions. We all can just hope for the best given she is in Malaysia.

by hodie on 08 February 2010 - 18:02

I have heard from Sabrina and the dog is still on medications, but doing better. She will update the thread soon. So far, so good.

by hexe on 08 February 2010 - 18:02

Perhaps I missed this in all of the earlier posts, but was a tick panel ever run on this dog?

by SabrinaT on 09 February 2010 - 13:02

UPDATE:

We went to see our vet on Saturday to discuss the results of the tests (done in KL) and he says that, in his opinion, the fluid mass is cancerous.
He says 99% chance it is cancerous, when I questioned this; asking if an infection causing all of this is still a possibility, he said it is very very unlikely- 'otherwise she would be responding to the antibiotics'.

I was very sceptical about this as the vet in KL had said it could be anything and it is very difficult for him to say before getting the test results back.
And I am very dubious about how much time he took talking to the vet in KL as our vet said it would have been better if we had done an Ultrasound in KL as well as the X-Rays (He thought we hadn't even done the Ultrasound when that was the main reason we went to KL!)

So, we asked about giving IV Antibiotics, which though reluctant (as he still says it's not likely to be an infection) he said he could do, but would have to keep Sam there so we instead requested some stronger antibiotics and he gave Marbocyl, we also got an anti-inflammatory, Rimadyl. And the vet in KL recommended we give Theophylline as well to assist Sam's breathing.

We haven't started giving the medication yet, as Sam has been doing much better since being off the medication (she was previously on Lasix, Enrofloxacin, and Hepavite). She has been without medication since Thursday when we took her to KL and her general mood has improved a lot; she is a little more active, quite a bit stronger, and eating very very well now.

We are currently deciding, with the help of Sharyn, if / when to start the medication.

I also called the vet in KL to ask if they have the test results and he said not yet, but he'll check with the lab and get back to me tomorrow.

So basically, at the moment, we are waiting for the test results to try and get a better idea of what the mass is, and what caused it etc, and then to decide from there what to do.

In the meantime, we are keeping Sam as comfortable as possible, making she she stays hydrated and eats as much as she can. And we will give Sam some supplements to replace the good bacteria lost due to the antibiotics as well.

We are also looking for another reputable vet in KL to get a 4th opinion from.

Hopefully, we will have the test results tomorrow / the day after and I'll post back here when we do.

Thanks again everyone so so much for all the help and support. (Especially Sharyn, who has been absolutely terrific)
It has been a wonderful comfort and great assisstance to us and most importantly Sam.

by SabrinaT on 09 February 2010 - 13:02

Hexe, no a tick panel was never done.
Is that something you think we should ask for?

Thanks a lot for the advice.

by eichenluft on 09 February 2010 - 13:02

good idea, if you have ticks where you live - if so, very good advice and easy to do. full tick panel, check for lymes, erlichea, rocky mt spotted (well guess that wouldn't be a problem in - malaysia?) - but might be the key to the problem.

molly

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