Got yourself an aloof GSD? Its your own fault - Page 10

 Miss Beeb, you don't go forward, you are supposed to just go home.  

9 days out of 10 4pack, diplomacy is my middle name. Every day at work I have to get people to change their ways with their dogs. Before being a dog trainer I've been a camp counselor, and art/drama teacher, and my few painful years in retail I was a top seller. Did I mention I was a journalism major in college? I'm a communicator.    Shoulda gone into politics, but I'm too honest, I think.

I will probably never get involved in bitework.  Yes, I believe I did breed to the standard, all my dogs were worked, but not Sch.  All my dogs were show dogs too.

I'll withdraw my "tiny" olive branch then, it's clearly not welcome.

Bancroft, You're just peeved at me... personally, it won't keep me awake nights and the breed will have lost nothing, remembering that you want it to be 2 breeds!

Missbeeb, I appreciate the clarification of your comment and looking at it from that light I appreciate the remark....We will still agree to disagree on working and structure being equal. I also think that the SV, in their wisdom of the days before today's current showline dogs, recognized the fact that many structurally incorrect dogs NEED to be in the genepool...that's why they created KK1 and KK2. The two dogs oftentimes not being structurally correct but necessary in the genepool. Here's the irony of this and confirmation in my mind that show dogs have gone astray, the best examples of form converting to function (real working dogs), are found in the KK2 dogs. Now if  the higher (KK1) form is not converting to function as well as the KK2,  which end of the equation has gone astray?? 

Yup, I can't argue with you Gustav, you're right, but why can't both sides work together for the overall good?

Bancroft

If someone isn't interested in bitework, then most of those qualities don't matter.  And yes, I can tell if a dog has prey drive without doing bitework.  Like it has been said several times, if you don't want all the qualities of a certain breed, find another.  If you were in the market for a car,  would you purchase the $80,000 car with all the bells and whistles if you're not gonna use half of them or they're not needed?  You wouldn't walk into a BMW dealership and ask them to remove the luxuries and replace the Leather with cloth, would ya?  So why conform a breed to yourself?  Why not find the breed that fits your need?  Many people use prey for Obedience, but if all you're doing is Obedience,  agilty, etc., go get a Border collie or the likes.  If all you're doing is tracking, go get a Bloodhound.   If all you're doing is watching Soaps and eating Bon Bons, go get a one-eyed Chinese crested.

I think that is what we are all wondering Missbeeb. You hardline showliners need to (expect) and use dogs that can work, not just look pretty. Many workingline breeders are already doing breed surveys and showing their dogs. It's a process and pretty doesn't come overnight. However the working lines will never develope into the Blk/Red dogs with frog behinds we see in the ring today. The dogs will look the way they need to, by process of elimination. Anyone who fantasizes about the current VA look as our new workingline is going to be sorely dissapointed.

Sue, 4pack, Gustav, i learnt a lot from you guys. Thank you! :)

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There are many breed people who work their dogs too 4pack, although, to be honest, some of them do it because it's necessary to have the qualifications to show in Germany etc.

Black & Red dogs... yeah, it's a colour, the least of our problems, trust me!  It's not so long ago that everything was totally paled out!  Colour is EASY to fix!

It's been a few years since I attended the Sieger, 2000 to be exact (Ursus won) but I didn't see any frog dogs there and I don't see a huge amount of them here.  I think you'll find it's all rather exagerated... don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, sort of thing.