Breed Improvement Suggestions for the UK GSD Breed Council - Page 10

We currently have a female with a hip score of 3/4 who recieved an 'a' stamp fast normal in Germany and I could quote several more who had hip scores under 14 who have recieved 'a' stamp fast normals and noch zugelassen and even a fail so I don't think that the 'a' stamp is an easy option any more.

As to working ability - I have 3 males at stud 2 with Sch H2 and one with Sch H3 and 2 of them are UK Champions and have a Sch H 1 female so we are trying to get the all round balanced GSD.  They are all show lines but when choosing a German Stud to use I always try to go for a male I know that works well and does not just pay lip service to the working qualifications.

Nikki Farley

As to working ability - I have 3 males at stud 2 with Sch H2 and one with Sch H3 and 2 of them are UK Champions and have a Sch H 1 female so we are trying to get the all round balanced GSD.  They are all show lines but when choosing a German Stud to use I always try to go for a male I know that works well and does not just pay lip service to the working qualifications.

Nikki Farley

Whilst I applaud you for that I don't think that was what Reason was asking, however it is not a bad start.  I also think that most of your peers would say the same.

The Kennel Club would bin an anonymous letter - signed by "reason" with no address. As would any sensible recipient of an anonymous letter. It is only on internet message boards that any credance is given to anonymous utterings. God help our future! What future?

Yet again Videx is reading something that is'nt there.  I seem to be defending Reason here, but come on.  Did he/she say they would be sending an anonomous letter to anyone let alone the KC, I don't think so.  Wouldn't someone if they thought stronly enough to write to any official body do it anonomously just because they have a sudonym (sp?) on here, PLEEEEEASE. 

Reason, Bancroft and Izzy have added some very thoughtful and useful comments to this thread . Yes I want a GSD that is of correct type, I also want one that has the physical and mental agility that will serve me well.  Although I subscribe to the thought that a good dog is where you find it, I nolonger look to the breed kennels for that dog like I did in the seventies and eighties.  Sad but true.

Jess

Simple Facts , the breed ave for hips has not improved in the UK because the Uk Kennel Club allows you to breed from any scores from 0  to 106 or with no score!!! In Germany where you have the 3 accepted pass grades with the N/Z  being the third grade and not one to aim for ( more are not using this grade) they can show data that they have made an improvement. It is not just about the two types of grading system it is all about  having a Kennel Club that allows you to breed and register dogs with bad hips.

Videx -  your statement - The 'a' stamp is certainly not an easy option, however ignorance is impossible to eradicate, especially on this board, where ignorance all too frequently appears to be a "qualification" to comment on a subject/thread.

How can you call people ignorant if they have been to seminars with the very person who was behind the start up of the Hip scoring system.  And I was not talking about the A stamp - it was the A stamp Fast Normal that I was referring to.

As for the score not improving - with people failing to send in scores to the BVA and going to Gerrmany they are not benefiting the breed at home.  If the scores are as good as they say then why are they not using the UK system in parallel to the SV one?  I know there are some breeders out there who do - but there are also many who dont.

Videx

would you like to copy and paste were i said i was writimg to the kennel club (if you cant) please retract/modify your post in the interest of accuracy.

Nikki

Can you confirm that ALL your breeding stock has gone through the full system ie Koreung and that you will only breed in future with the min requirement in place,

That is what i mean by actively promoting the GSD

Can we go back to the point of the thread

I have made reasoned argument and made a outline suggestion as to a possible way forward, i doubt it will be considered although it has not been criticised

Other suggestions would be the point to this discussion

Another important point on the hip scores, both here and in other countries, we talk about means averages, what about the ratio of dogs xrayed to actually scored, most people get to see the plates before they are sent to be scored. Decissions are then made about presenting them for scoring. I have heared comments of dogs not being brought around because of disaster results. So if everything was scored that was xrayed god knows, what would be the average. Bill Owen.

Bill - I quite agree.  I had a bitch, who when scored had obviously bad hips and the vet still sent them straight to the BVA, probably in part due to the fact that he knew I would want them recorded whether good bad or indifferent.  However you regularly hear the comment - the xray's were bad so we didnt send them off, this is something that cannot help the breed.

I also feel that the excessive amount charged by many vets for x-rays means that many dogs are not scored as it is deemed as something that only a breeder would do.  I feel that we need to get a way to get the costs down - after all when hips and elbows cost £200 for the xrays its not surprising when told that the results will be bad that people choose not to spend a further £67.30 to be told they are bad!

I think we need to encourage pet owners to get their dogs scored, whether good or bad, for the good of the breed, and I know there are some places that  just specialise in health screening xrays and they are much cheaper than our vets and also much more efficient at getting good plates first time.

Must say beepy that I agree with your last posting about trying to obtain hip and elbows x-rayed at a more realistic cost, which may encourage more people to have their Shepherds scored.

I understand there is somewhere on the south coast that charges a very realistic figure for their x-rays, but I, as well as a lot of other people no doubt, cannot  afford the time necessary to travel to and from there, also financially speaking, petrol isn't as cheap as it was, once upon a time.

I had a young bitch done on Wednesday at my local Vet's, who I must add are an excellent practice, but the total cost was £336.90 inc. VAT. The BVA charge was £69.69 plus VAT. I almost feel I need to take out a 2nd. mortgage to pay it...!!!!!

Perhaps with a lot of co-operation between us all, somewhere more central could be set up that gives discounted prices for hip and elbow x-rays, also to encourage everyone to send in the plates, however good or bad they were, perhaps the BVA fees could be re-funded if the scores were higher than recommended. Mind you for this to happen, the Kennel Club would have to make scoring compulsory prior to registration, which unfortunately, doesn't look on the cards!!

Ros - I now use the lady in Southampton that I think you are referring to.  It cost me about £110 for hips and elbows plus  the BVA fee, so with some petrol it still adds up to just over £200 which is considerably less than your vet!

Rather than refunding the cost I think the KC should allow for fred registration of puppies if the dog is hip scored - this would balance out some of the cost and also encourage breeders to health screen!  They make enough money out of the transfers to their new homes for this to not be too detrimental to their bank acount!