Picking a Sire from Pedigrees. - Page 1

Hello,

I have talked to 5 breeders and visited 2. I think I have whittled down my list to these 2 breeders. Each has some pluses and minuses I am still trying to weigh out. What I would like to ask the community though is which of these 2 sires would fit my needs/wants/desires the best? Specifically, I am not very knowlegeable about reading GSD pedigrees. I have watched ZVV, VBG, SCHH level 1-3 tests on youtube video quite a bit. I have not watched many shows. one of the sires has several VA, V designations while the other seems to have more working dog titles in its pedigree. If you could provide any insight into which of these two sires:

Cerry

Ron

would fit the wants/desires below, I would really appreciate the help.


Background:
We are looking at getting a dog. Wife had German Shepherd/Rottweiler mixes growing up. I have had Labradors and no experience with either of those breeds.

Desired Traits:
We are wanting a dog for guard/companionship duty around our rural property with 40 acres to roam but about 3 to protect. We want one with a working dog pedigree vs show and I am interested in training them for schutzhund,/IPO.

We want them to be protective of their pack. We have outdoor cats for mice and don't want the cats killed. We also need a dog that we can trust around chickens. We would want the dog to feel free to take care of coons or possums that have come after our chickens and outdoor cats while also bigger pests such as the occasional coyote. We also have an indoor cat.

We want a dog that gives a verbal warning when vehicles come up the drive, people are walking towards the house, but won't bark at every squirrel that runs up a tree. Willing to attack if necessary, but looks to the owner for guidance on what is ok. We live on a lane over a 1/4 mi back from the road in a house hidden from view, so a person walking in the yard without our knowledge doesn't belong.

We would be taking the dog with us camping to state/national parks, walking, and running. I have a spring loaded device to hook to a bicycle allowing the dog to trot alongside that dampens their pull away from the bike that I have used with 100 lb dogs before.

The dog would be an indoor/outdoor dog. Indoors during the night. Outdoors most days for 3 seasons and out on milder winter days. On the days I am home, outdoors would be off leash following me around the yard while I work in garden, walk in woods, cut firewood etc.

Ease of Training:
I have/will train my dogs using the methods of some Orthodox Monks that works well, The Monks of New Skete..These include how to select the puppy out of the litter. I have had good success with my dogs. By the time I finish with them, they will stay in a position for 30 minutes in the front yard while I am inside, if walking in town they will automatically sit at any cross walk. When walking them, they are not allowed to put their nose ahead of my knee even without a leash. They are exposed to loud noises, like gunfire, without moving out of position. for my Labs I used Game Dog/Gun Dog as supplementary training manuals.

None of the dogs good behavior is due to me but the training method of those monks which I followed. They are very effective. They go into a lot of detail on puppy selection and that is very important. I always take whistles, tennis balls, firecracker snaps with me when selecting a puppy. I also roll them on their backs and hold them to see how they react etc. along with several other toys and techniques. NEVER select a puppy on "oh its CUTE" (They actually sell German Shepherds so you may have heard of them.)

I take 3 weeks off work to be with/puppy train a new puppy and a lot of that is spent socializing with cats, kittens, indoor cat and bird etc. We also would take our puppy to hear and become accustomed to city sounds although our primary residence is rural.

 

Definitely the 1st sire Cerry hes got a good pedigree of some nice old style czech dogs with a little bit of west lines and 1 dogs who has some ddr upclose in his ped: Fiasko. Overall really nice pedigree this dogs could have the traits that you are looking for when analysing the pedigree but its upto the dogs traits and temperament so you have to see the dog in person.

Correct me if im wrong but are you looking to get those dogs that you chose or breed them?

If you intend to breed them to a female of your choice then you would need to see if the female has those traits that you are looking for and most importantly would the sire compliment her.

there is absolutely no one that can answer these questions looking at the pedigrees. they can tell you if they prefer SL/WL

you just need to find a breeder you trust, research as much as possible and discuss from there.

jmo,
Rik

thanks for responding! I figured my post was so long I wasn't sure if I should include all options.

For Cerry, The dam's choices are

Grace von der Magie. I could not find a pedigree here but the pink paper is at Grace

Khaleesi bohemia Jites at khaleesi

Ron has a choice of:

Kora

Quina

Sila

Leri

rik

thanks for the response.

I found 2 breeders that's the problem :) I would be comfortable with either one of them. So I figured I would let the pedigrees decide which has the best chance of yielding a good WL dog.

its ultimately not upto to the pedigree but the individual dog the pedigree is just a good foundation. You need to see both dogs first and learn their traits and temperaments.

I talked to both breeders for over 2 hours on the phone.
I spent 2 hours on site with each sire. Both were well behaved. Both were friendly. Both wanted to work. Met all the females also.

That's why this has become so difficult. I was hoping that the pedigrees would offer some other clues.

fos, I'm going to say some stuff that is probably no help to you.

1. For the most part, SL GSD are fake GSD. but there are some in that pedigree that I personally like. for whatever that is worth.

2. just from my experience, right off the bat, I would say go with the WL. but, if you get an over the top, excessive prey dog, you will both be miserable.

3. there is no way anyone can predict that your choice will love cats/chickens and destroy coons/possums.

don't know what else to say,
Rik

Rik,

It does help me some. I just need to be sure of what you are saying. Cerry is more of a WL dog and SL would be Ron. I can tell that because Ron has all the VA, V, titles in the pedigree line and Cerry has more working titles like ZVV, SCHH, VPG which are various working titles while Ron is mostly SCHH?

I do think my wants/desires point to the WL.

I know there are no guarantees, but if they are exposed as puppies early and often my chances are much better, I believe.

Grace and Khaleesi both have good pedigrees. Grace has some of the best German working lines you can find. But from my own experience from either working with or training some of those bloodlines (from both dogs), if I was going by pedigree alone, I would lean more towards Khaleesi. Either one is a good pick if its just on the bloodlines.