Wanted: Scientific reasons for the different jumps used in Sports. - Page 1

Please does anybody know the reasons for different sports having different jump requirements? Links to official scientific research, published papers or expert opinions would be greatly appreciated. Specifically I would like to know why IPO use the A frame and hurdle to test dogs but the Working Trials sport in the UK still has the scale (at 6 foot high), the 9 foot long jump and the 3 foot clear jump. Thank you in anticipation of some expert replies.  

Science; Newton had an apple hit him in the head so dog people now understand that jumps can not be 10 meters high and 20 meters long. Sooner, not later the dog will hit the ground.

now my real thoughts; For the GSD LE dog. He must handle many obstacals when working. Commonly, in a search a 3 foot to 4 foot fence must be jumped. The ability to jump and the willingness to do it over and over again on command is demonstrated in organized trials of LE dogs and sport dogs. The HGH begins with the herding dog jumping into a pen of sheep to assist the shepherd in moving them out. The IPO dog must show retrieves with a meter jump and 6 ft A -Frame. The ring dogs and knpv dogs do higher and longer jumps but without the retrieves. In the AKC obedience events jumps were lowered in my life time of involvement and observation. Is that the the explaination you look for? 

Thank you gsdstudent but I particularily wanted to know why IPO have the A frame, because I believe they started with the scale, and why they dropped the long jump. Although I am interested in how different sports have chosen their jumps, I specifically need scientific opinions or written articles on the jumps currently used in the UK for Working Trials (scale at 6 foot, long jump at 9 foot and clear at 3 foot), because the UK Kennel Club is finally assessing the affects of those jumps on Working Trials dogs. I am a Working Trials Council Liaison Representative who is concerned about the welfare of WT dogs and I would very much value some scientific facts/theories that I could present to the UK Kennel Club.

Depends on the breed and the expectations.  I have an adult GSD male who can leap to the top and pull up and over on a six foot fence no problem and I have had a 8 month old male puppy GSD who could and did leap and pull over a six foot vertical fence no problem (there was no scaling) and would do it in two directions just for fun and to get in a pen with me.  I do not encourage this as it can lead to injuries.  These dogs could scale an 8 or 10 foot fence if needed but they should not practice this type climbing as it will likely result in injuries.  A Beagle hound can climb a 4 foot cattle fence and I have had small dogs that could go through some fences because they were so small or they could go under or through.  Probably more important that the dog is willing to do what is necessary to conquer the obstacle and how they do it is probably less important .. style is not as important as determination and grit for some jobs.  Beagle hounds chasing the rabbit must get under, over, or thru the fence to continue the chase and how they do it is not as important as how fast and that they do it regardless.  It's like a lot of things .. more of a psychological challenge and a show event than practical.  The long jump in track and field is of little practical use for most athletic endeavors if you need three trys to get the distance required.  Probably the shorter of three jumps would determine the winner in a real situation more often than the longer of three jumps.  If you give a dog a problem such as how to cross over a fence or cross over a stream how the dog does it whether by using physical gifts or just being smart and problem solving is somewhat irrelevant.  Field trial dogs and tracking dogs must conquer obstacles and in some ways the patterned sports such as IPO do little to test the dogs mind and spirit.  Schutzhund or IPO started out as a breeding suitability test so the jumps in IPO were more or less minimum requirements for a GSD with vertical jumps set at 1 meter and the A frame at 6 feet.  If you look at flyball the jumps are set according to the dogs height so the nature of the sport whether for competition or for breeding test has some bearing on the nature of the jumps.  I think in luring they use jumps and water in some contests .. depends on the nature of the dogs and the nature of what is being tested for.

it is not a scientific question, i doubt any scientists has ever been funded to write a paper on it. you sound as tho you think these sports were developed AFTER a scientifc research project was done on them and the results analysed.

the answer is that the jumps and everything else was done as a result of, culture, history, availability, prior knowledge, personal taste, and most importantly people with lots of political power and  incapable dogs making the ruules and sport fit their "special" dogs so they can acheive....zero science at all.

almost funny you think it is a scientific question.

My question is why you are trying to evaluate the height and/or length of the jumps?  Is it because some people want to reduce the demands of the jumps for the breed classes?   By reducing the expectations of performance for certain breeds, you reduce the overall capabilities of said breeds, IMO.    What's wrong with the jumps as they are?   

a 6 foot A-frame could mean a lot of compeletely different A-Frames.

anyone know the actual specs so it is clearly defined., perpencicular height and half angle at the apex would do it.

There has been some science done on designing jumps and A frames for dogs.  For instance the work done indicates that the more rigid the A Frame the better it is for the dogs and their joints.  Solid built wooden A Frames produce less injuries because the dog does not get kickback as the animal hits the A Frame.  The light weight and foldable travel type A Frames will cause more injuries than the more solid and unflexible sturdy built A Frames.  Many dog sports are repetitive so the height and design of the course is important or the dogs get repetitive injury problems much like carpel tunnel in humans with keyboards.  Also many sports limit or deduct for the dogs jumping too soon and from too high on the apparatus so as to reduce injuries.  I think Agility as well as IPO and Ring Sports discourage leaping from the top of the apparatus directly to the ground with point deductions.  Likewise the jumps or hurdles in some sports are set up for a longer jump and discourage a vertical jump to clear the hurdle as the more vertical the take off and landing the more damaging it is to the dog's joints.

"Specifically I would like to know why IPO use the A frame and hurdle to test dogs but the Working Trials sport in the UK still has the scale (at 6 foot high), the 9 foot long jump and the 3 foot clear jump."

i think the OP wants to know the ralionale for the specific selection of jump and obstacle types in relation to testing and provng something about the dog.

not the ergonomics and work place health & safety issues of a particlualar jump design.

BTW bubba, i would love to see these scientific papers you mentioned, what journal, links?