somebody please explain the compulsive whip work in IPO training - Page 1

i have been trying to figure it out for years now, i keep making unsubstantaited comments about how idiotic it looks.

willing to learn and be put straight. it appears to me many decoys use it out of habit, i see no method or rationale.

is it to make the dog, angry, deconditioned to the whip, bring into drive...what exactly?

what would happen if you used it sparingly or not at all, the dogs would no longer bite?

being open minded, please educate me.

when willing to learn?, go see good trainers and see which dogs they stimulate with the whip and which they do not stim with the whip. bad trainers might lead to a good examples of what not to do.

been to IPO club a few times and also attended a seminar (no dog), saw a variety of trainers, could not see any difference, people cracking whips at random all over the field even while some were trying to do their obed. on arrival while still in the car park i nearly bolted, thought i took a wrong turn and ended up in Fallujah Iraq.

BTW that is a crap explanation but i should say thank for replying, sooo thanks for replying.

Too many times the whip is used as a crutch. To bring the dog up or "light it up" when used improperly the dog becomes reactive not proactive.  I do see too often good dogs that would work with much less whip but become supressed because of it or dependent upon it being there. I,d much rather see the stick it self used then the whip.  I can walk any of my dogs up to the field and just by saying " You Ready" there fired up! 

JMHO

We had a national level judge giving a helper seminar. He came down on the helpers like a ton of bricks when he saw then using the whip unnecessarily!

One  helper was using it to whack the dogs on the legs while teasing them with the sleeve. He said this was entirely the wrong thing to do, especially with dogs that were just learning.

@ Bob, makes sense, too much exposure to anything will de-sensitise and you have to up the level to get the same effect.

so it's to build drive then, from Bob's comment.

I,d rather have to cap drive then build it! 

A dog should be able to bring it,s drive naturally the whip can be a good tool but yes like so many things it can easliy be abused. I lkie the dog to focus on the man not his tools. When they learn the man is the reward very little more is needed. 

Why DOES the whip work? Why not another noise?  I'd like to understand it better myself.

IMO and experience, telling someone to go watch "good" and "bad" helper work is useless, as it is a subjective opinion.

One man's golden decoy is another man'a shit decoy.  We see it here all the time.  Somebody posts a video of a dog working and there is almost always at least one person that comments on the shitty helper work.

Too many "helpers" use this as a crutch.  A good example is running the hold and bark exercise.  A club I used to train at would send the dogs around blind 5 and once the dog turned the blind headed to 6 they would step out and "crack crack crack"!!!!  This looks nice and fires the dog up, but trial day when you send her around 5, and she goes to 6 and there is no cracking of the whip...guess what happens?  Yep...dog thinks exercise is over and makes you look like an idiot.  

The whip is a GREAT tool...in this particular example...it is not a good tool to TEACH a dog an exercise.  The dog needs to learn how to go out on the field and by its own actions, make the HELPER react to him...not the other way around.  He has to KNOW there is a guy in that blind...even if there is no whip cracking.  The whip can be used once the exercise is learned well.  A good example of proper use of the whip, pertaining to this example, would be cracking it on the dogs way in to fire him up and proof him being clean on the sleeve.  You know if he is that "hot" and clean, that once there is no stimulate that he will most likely be clean come trial day.  There are many many more examples of proper and improper use of the whip.  These "trainers" resort to it for fast, incorrect results...and they wonder why the dog flakes out trial day..seen it a million times...then they blame the dog, the handler...never realizing they are the idiots...lol

No time to explain this right now but I'll give my take on it tonite when I have more time.