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by Don Corleone on 08 March 2011 - 18:03
by MAINLYMAX on 16 March 2011 - 19:03
However he produced slugs on the field if you did not breed him to a fast
female.
So why did so many people breed to Elgos????
Because he produces a very good grip...the best.
There was a time when every GSD I trained for SchH was
a fast dog...No problems in that department, but now
it is an issue. I personally would not own a dog who is to slow
and lacks energy and enthusiasm
by Don Corleone on 16 March 2011 - 19:03
by MAINLYMAX on 16 March 2011 - 23:03
But has some very good bitches with speed on the other side
to balance out Elgos.....what he ended up with was a banger on the field.
Platz is a locking up exercise....try platzing your dog in a full run.
Stand is good for slowing down.....with a horse you may have to do back ups to
get them to slow down.
Bring.. is a command that will show how you much enthusiasm and
speed of motion the dog has on his recall. In German it is... bringen!!!
This is like what I think the ball crazy dogs do best. And what you may see
as a reward. I see a more systemic speed of motion in everything, all the task.
We have to look at the dog to see things through his eyes...if this is not happening.
Because there could be any number of reasons. But I always eliminate the variables
that might keep him from performing . Keep the training regimental enough to get
consistency but flexible enough to allow for hiccups.
Make sure you have taught the position excecises very well, before going to the motion excercises.
Other wise you dog will be stepping out on you if you move forward or turn your back.
by MAINLYMAX on 17 March 2011 - 00:03
the transfer from food to toy...What I say is I see no conflict.
And I did not edit....Meaning that I first teach the positions with edibles
or food but going from that to toy is not in conflict.
What you are doing is rewarding a close approximation or a good sit stand down
and lay down command. In the beginning I find that a edible small peace of
a treat given as soon as possible right after the dog sits or what ever has a long
lasting effect as well as extreme gratification for obedience. This very good for
your puppy or young dog who is just starting out. I have done this in a very short time
taught all the position commands. This may sound dumb but don't use an
edible the dog does not care for. If it is something he really likes you will get a very good
response from him. I wish I could do that with my horse.
Don't move on to motion excercises until you established good position. Than the cue and
the sensativty of the dog come into play. A good helper will promote your training in this area
of motion excercises. You are hoping to keep your dog in position ...no shuffling or stepping out.
My dogs are very fixed on my position and react very easily. So I make sure that I don't cue them
with body language in the beginning.
by ALPHAPUP on 25 March 2011 - 14:03
Mainlymax .[ and for newcomers ] .. . i also do teach postion .. similar at times to what you describeMM .. the topic is 'speed' .. so for me [ and maybe you MM ] , the positions ..are first taught exactly correctly .. then in the dogs mind is : ' it's a matter going from one position to another' .. stand -> down is therefore , positon -> position . Afterwards it becomes a matter of time .. The changing of a postion , becomes a function of timing .. you build speed afterwards ..i am not teaching the 'action of a postion ' .. meaning to all .. when i teach sit .. i am not teaching the dog it is an action" to sit " .. "it is not the ACTION OF sitting ".... sit is a position .. the only way the dog can present that position is to manipulate it's body to replicate that position .. same with down, like a statue , it means one and only one specific thing. .. i do not teach "go down" .. down is a position to be presented to me... .. the presenting of one position TO ANOTHER position , takes action .. it is within the action /transfer from one position to another where speed is created ... now food / toy use .. that depends on the dog .. i like yourslef will use food to imprint and teach , usually a pup .. becuase i can 'steer' the dog into correctness . At the begining i think for us, 'speed' is not the issue , correctness and exactitude is !! .. the second reason i use food ,it is a fashion that i communicate with , a tool .. not a reward ness... it's a tool ... & because it is an integral part of survival !! i practice at pup's breakfast , lunch , dinner .. always !! it becomers a part of what the pup is / is going to be / how it is going to live it's life !! foremost -correctness / exactitude in position is paramount !! speed comes afterwards .. once the postions become to the pup like the color of it's coat .. i can teach " do this fast " ... the dog learns ; fast i get my needs vs. slow oh i just missed super !! [ afterwards there will be no food .. the dog learns a differnt leeson BTW] .. another trick i use : the other pack members .: -- . having taught all pack members the word "platz" a new pup learns 'speed' .. well i call the pack .. perhaps six [ 10 live with me in the house] and i say " Platz" .. they have learned AND the pup WILL LEARN [ real fast too ] if it doesn't hit the floor upon hearing 'platz' doesn't present the position . .. nothing .. it get's nothing - the one that executes the fastest , correctly .. that's the one that gets the offering !! believe me - you wouldn't believe what a little competition will do for you ... no different than having 6 kids in a family going at the dinner table .. .. you snooze , you lose ! my mantra ,, french ring, beglium ring , Sch .. all are a way of life .. what i do in life i expect anywhere, anytime , any how .. not in a training session or a trainining field only !! i'll take a walk .. change it from an at ease walk to a " Fuss" walk , then release ...walk again and out of the blue "Platz ".. i do not allow my dogs to think that they perform only on a training field and that everytime they have to get something !! Speed is taught , anywhere , anytime , anyplace ..in everything you do !! It is expected .. always in everything !! that is how i teach speed !! everything consistent !![ not only expected , but nothing else accepted !!] So .. how is the down in motion ... different than taking a walk in the stfeet and telling youre dog to platz? /
by sueincc on 25 March 2011 - 20:03
Alpha I really like that pack thing, using the competition of the pack to teach, it's a great idea, I can see how that would work and I am going to give it a try. Smooth!!
For me, it's easier to train everything, including the motion excercizes, with the dog always in drive first, and with my dogs/pups, their highest drive has always been easiest to access with a ball or tug, so he is correct when he is in drive, and is always rewarded in drive, so the sits and the downs are faster than when I reward with food. This way when I step onto the field he is in drive whether I have a ball or not, because this is how he has learned to be all the time, and at least for me, when the dog is in drive, everything is a little bit quicker and easier.
I am not saying that just because a dog is in drive he will always have fast enough out of motion excercizes but for me it's an easier place to start. It's much harder to take a dog who has been allowed to be pokey because he has been taught this is correct, and then to teach him you want him to be in drive all the time can be a more of a challenge than if you insist he be in drive all the time when you step onto the field I think.
So then to increase the speed I use light corrections & quick rewards.
by ALPHAPUP on 25 March 2011 - 23:03
sueincc... i think if that works for you that is ok .. light enforcement or rewards is a suitable way to say to your dog :" this is what i want you to do , or no , this is what i do not want you to do" !! perfectly fine .. this works for your dog .. stick with it if you get the desired results..
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