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by SitasMom on 31 March 2009 - 11:03
agreed very constructive.
by JLB82 on 31 March 2009 - 12:03
yeah, i do have i lot to learn and i do enjoy it, i have alot of years ahead of me but i will get there.
by DebiSue on 31 March 2009 - 12:03
Live and learn. Good luck to you in obtaining your goals! You're off to a good start. Asking for help and taking the criticism and gleaning info from it will help you in the long run. Who knows? You could end up with a top kennel with top titled dogs and we can say someday, "I knew him when...". 
Deb
Deb
by 4pack on 31 March 2009 - 14:03
Ah, I wouldn't have bothered on the other thread had I seen this first! I took a second look at your dogs ped to the 7th gen but there is nothing there past the 5th. Not much to tell...
I see I'm not the only one who didn't candy coat the situation. I hope you keep reading and learn some about the breed here.
I see I'm not the only one who didn't candy coat the situation. I hope you keep reading and learn some about the breed here.
by windwalker18 on 31 March 2009 - 17:03
Just so others know... the origional poster has followed up with IM's and asked good questions. Like Hodie's experience with them, they seem to have that same hunger for info that we all had back when. And I also started with dogs that ended up spayed/altered and never bred as I learned what the hell I was looking at. I was fortunate enough to have conversations with Bill Goldbecker, Orrie Nordness and Fred Lanting (amoung others) who helped me learn without berating the rather poor, but totally loved dogs that I had at the time. My heartfelt thanks goes out to them for helping me learn the WHY of the conformation standards.
by Nancy on 01 April 2009 - 13:04
The OP has significantly modified the first post in the thread making changes in the right direction and asks a worthwhile question:
Another Question, If the dogs that professional trainer and handlers breed, for the own need of a hobbie and making money off a pup, cost 900-1500 dollars a pup. How do the people who just want a good german shepherd as a friend, and a new additon to the family. Supose to be able, to afford one. I guess there not, only people who can afford to throw down that much cash are the ones worthy enough, to own one of these dogs. My Question is, what makes the pros breeding so much more ethical?
Let me start by saying I am not a breeder.
It is a lot of money to be true but it really is not when you look at it as the cost to properly care for a dog over its life. Ok $1000 over 12 years is around $1.60 per week. I KNOW even people without a lot of money waste more than that. , I think a good breeder does not have a lot of "duds" to be sold at a lower price.
These people have, themselves, spent a lot of money on acquisition of the right breeding stock and invested a significant amount of time and money in training, titling, and otherwise having their dog evaluated. Then there are puppies they may raise that have had a lot of time invested in them as potential breeding stock but are determined not to be breedworthy.
Screening for health issues is another cost that should up the probabilty of not producing a defective puppy that may need thousands in medical care. And breeding is not without risks to the dogs either.
Most of these breeders also "guarantee" the puppy, either offering to take it back, provide full or partial refund, or give a replacement in the case of a serious defect - so it is in their own best interest to produce healthy specimens. They also are a resource for the owner in case of problems or advice is needed.
Even when we were first married and poor enough to qualify for food stamps and WIC [both of which we chose not to accept], we were able to save the money to buy good dogs.
I think where the prices run up is that that some of the showline dogs are way overpriced in the several thousand dollar range; I would not pay for those.
Another Question, If the dogs that professional trainer and handlers breed, for the own need of a hobbie and making money off a pup, cost 900-1500 dollars a pup. How do the people who just want a good german shepherd as a friend, and a new additon to the family. Supose to be able, to afford one. I guess there not, only people who can afford to throw down that much cash are the ones worthy enough, to own one of these dogs. My Question is, what makes the pros breeding so much more ethical?
Let me start by saying I am not a breeder.
It is a lot of money to be true but it really is not when you look at it as the cost to properly care for a dog over its life. Ok $1000 over 12 years is around $1.60 per week. I KNOW even people without a lot of money waste more than that. , I think a good breeder does not have a lot of "duds" to be sold at a lower price.
These people have, themselves, spent a lot of money on acquisition of the right breeding stock and invested a significant amount of time and money in training, titling, and otherwise having their dog evaluated. Then there are puppies they may raise that have had a lot of time invested in them as potential breeding stock but are determined not to be breedworthy.
Screening for health issues is another cost that should up the probabilty of not producing a defective puppy that may need thousands in medical care. And breeding is not without risks to the dogs either.
Most of these breeders also "guarantee" the puppy, either offering to take it back, provide full or partial refund, or give a replacement in the case of a serious defect - so it is in their own best interest to produce healthy specimens. They also are a resource for the owner in case of problems or advice is needed.
Even when we were first married and poor enough to qualify for food stamps and WIC [both of which we chose not to accept], we were able to save the money to buy good dogs.
I think where the prices run up is that that some of the showline dogs are way overpriced in the several thousand dollar range; I would not pay for those.
by Mystere on 01 April 2009 - 14:04
I agree with Nancy. Some of the big name breeders, and those are most likely to be show breeders (not a bash, simply a statement of fact) make HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars from puppy sales each year. Look at the practice of selling bitch puppies on co-ownership, UNTIL THEY GET A LITTER BACK. Do the math. There is no excuse for those prices, especially if most of the puppies are going to pet homes. None. Yes, there are costs to be recouped. But, those "costs", IMO, do NOT include the cost of training and titling a dog that one presumably was going to title anyway....at least, that's usually the case with the working lines. But, if one is ONLY paying to have a dog trained and titled IN ORDER to breed, they should just be honest and admit that the dogs and breed are just money-making ventures, rather than a passion. THAT explains the puppy prices.
by wuzzup on 01 April 2009 - 14:04
I think I saw that dog JLB82 posted in the classified ads here while ago.. I don't think it was in regards to the dog being bred of for sale ..I think JLB82 may not be being quiet honest with his post .. I read a lot of the ads here so I can not remember what all were about ..Given the fact his pedigree is a lot of not ,It should make you wonder WTF.. He should be able to find more info on a real pedigree.. JMO ...Another thing dose he think kiezer is going to live to be 17-20 years old ??
by SitasMom on 02 April 2009 - 01:04
Another Question, If the dogs that professional trainer and handlers breed, for the own need of a hobbie and making money off a pup, cost 900-1500 dollars a pup. How do the people who just want a good german shepherd as a friend, and a new additon to the family. Supose to be able, to afford one. I guess there not, only people who can afford to throw down that much cash are the ones worthy enough, to own one of these dogs. My Question is, what makes the pros breeding so much more ethical?
An inexpensive dog and an well bred expensive dog will eat the same amount of kibble (or raw), a visit to the vet and leash and coller also cost the same. One would expect that a pup from a really good breeding program with a good (written) health guarentee will have fewer issues (HD, ED, EPI, etc) then a puppy from un checked and un certified parents.
Save your money - skip starbucks mocha chocholattas and mcconalds jumbo meals and the money will be there before you know it. While saving and waiting; learn all about what you actually want to do with the pup and which bloodlines are best for your interests, find the best breeders for your particular interests. Meet as many different breeders as you can, go to events and practices in your particular interests and meet the owners. If you eventually want to be a breeder, you will have to have titled dogs. That means you will be spending lots of time with these people. See if you like them, different activities brings out different types of people, this is a consideration.
I set aside my lunch money every day and before I know it I could buy a wonderful puppy. It tool much less time then I expected and now I have a puppy that turns heads. Not sure if its good or bad yet LOL, but I think he's a really great pup.
You have taken the first steps on a never ending path - good for you and good for the breed!
An inexpensive dog and an well bred expensive dog will eat the same amount of kibble (or raw), a visit to the vet and leash and coller also cost the same. One would expect that a pup from a really good breeding program with a good (written) health guarentee will have fewer issues (HD, ED, EPI, etc) then a puppy from un checked and un certified parents.
Save your money - skip starbucks mocha chocholattas and mcconalds jumbo meals and the money will be there before you know it. While saving and waiting; learn all about what you actually want to do with the pup and which bloodlines are best for your interests, find the best breeders for your particular interests. Meet as many different breeders as you can, go to events and practices in your particular interests and meet the owners. If you eventually want to be a breeder, you will have to have titled dogs. That means you will be spending lots of time with these people. See if you like them, different activities brings out different types of people, this is a consideration.
I set aside my lunch money every day and before I know it I could buy a wonderful puppy. It tool much less time then I expected and now I have a puppy that turns heads. Not sure if its good or bad yet LOL, but I think he's a really great pup.
You have taken the first steps on a never ending path - good for you and good for the breed!
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