Close linebreeding - Page 1

From my understanding Ursus von Batu is an excellent dog. He has sired Yasko vom Farbenspiel who in turn sired Larus von Batu. What are some negative a positive effects of linebreeding closely on Ursus Batu? I am looking at a dog with a 4,3- 2 linebreeding on VA1 Ursus von Batu. What are some thoughts on that?

I am just curious, how did you arrive at the 4,3-2, that you are desiring. How did you arrive at that precise decision?

That would be enough for me -- regardless of what the dog produces -- 10 times a good thing doesn't make 10 good things - -It makes a mess, usually !! My new puppy is linebred on Ursus also 3,4 (Karat's Ulk and Sergio Steckenborn on the mother's side. I wouldnt' be looking to add more of the same in my choice of a stud dog. Type to type -- works for me -- Do not try to breed a goat to a giraffe and don't be fooled into thinking that if you find 5-6 VA dogs in the 6th and 7th generations that it's going to have much influence on what you get. Look to the grandparents and if they are nice - hope for that quality - if they have faults - who doesn't ? -- got to a male that is known to correct those faults. Everybody complains that the german lines are already too tight -- I'm not that up on it - but I wouldn't purposefully look for more of one or two dogs -- To me, it's not about Ursus - specifically -- it's about the gene pool in general. "Genetic Diversity is critical to the survial of ANY species"!! (P.S. I hope to breed my bitch to my male who is is Jango furstenberg grandson and sired by another Farbenspiel stud and I will not pick up any more URSUS - But it will give me additional line-breeding on Enzo vd Burg Aliso (way back).

What Pineridge said makes Perfrect sense to me, Even if you find a Pup line bred on Ursus 4,3-2 il make sure that it has NO MORE of ursus in it after this. Some other line to compliment the Virtues and Faults of this particular dog! 10 times a good thing doesn't make 10 good things - -It makes a mess, usually !

When you see ads that say "Ursus FREE pedigree" there is usually a reason this is seen as a plus.. After a dog has Ursus two times close up, finding breedings to dogs that don't carry Ursus becomes a challenge, and you are really limited by a tight line breeding like this. There is no doubt Ursus has been an incredible producer, but every dog has faults, so you closely double up on all those too..

the quality of a breeding line bred on any dog depends somewhat on the breeder. if the breeder is breeding on other dogs quality within the lines, Ursus may have little dominance in what comes out. who would have thought Jeck would be in so many pedigrees today. saying a pedigree is Ursus free, can have several meaning, one, the breeder wants to promote his lines, which are Ursus free, another, may want to project there are some issues useing Ursus or line breeding, its also a way of saying, I used him, he didn't produce any thing with my female. others may not use the lines or like them. depends who makes the comments.

Which are the pro and cons for linebreed to Ursus? Head, streght, type? And the cons croup, rear angulation? I mean, what the breeders want to get doing that inbreeding and wich are the risks? I found in this database the pictures of several Ursus inbreed dogs, but they are pictures. But some of the looked very nice.

GENETIC DIVERSITY IS CRITICAL TO THE SURVIVAL OF ANY SPECIES -- ANY !! Look at what happened to the American dogs - from Lance of Fran Jo - onward-- First it was Hammer and Hawkeye - and Reno and Paladin - and later Bear (Sundance Kid) and you couldn't find a pedigree that didn't carry 4-5-8 times that dog and all his "alleged" issues. Later - the novices looked at pedigrees for 4 generations and said - all the names are different -- no Sundance Kid - little did they know that if they went back 2-3-4 more generations they would all end up in the same place. !! You could inbreed full brother/sister -- it's been done with spectacular results - but what did the next generation product -- you often never know - because those spectacular pups -- looked wonderful at 8-12 months even -- mysteriously disappeared before they were two years old - never to be heard from again !! The untold horror stories that unfold in the dead of night in the whelping box never come out -- They say there were 4 pups - they didn't say anything about the other 4 that died the first week !! or were born with the guts on the outside -- because even though they were full term - their midline didn't close -- and their heart murmers were much more than little whispers !!! There are no shortcuts, my friends - - it's been tried - and they've failed miserably !!