Play/Prey drive - Page 1

I read in a post on another thread a comment which meant play drive isn't same prey drive, I didn't wish to derail so I thought better ask about it on a seperate thread.

This term "drive" when ever I think I got it right, I hear a new thing that makes me wonder if I ever understood it right really.

So there is a play drive?

What is difference between play and prey drive? and how do you tell which is which?

Ibrahim

Play to me is rehearsing or practice of prey or defense without it being serious. Even an alpha can have fun assuming the role of prey during play or let a less dominate dog rehearse a dominate role in the defense drive during play. Play serves a purpose in that it lets the dog to rehearse it's movements and posturing without harm coming to the individual. I keep my use of the term drive to a minimum, I have not come to accept that play is a drive into itself, it is a desire for the dog to be in a particular drive without it being serious. Prey in the wild starts with hunger, it includes tracking the prey, stalking, chasing, capturing, killing, tearing apart the prey and finally with consuming the prey. Prey is not personal and there is no fear in prey. We place the dog into prey drive by making movement thereby triggering the instinct of chase found in prey. The defense drive is personal, it is based in fear to some measure, the dog has to percieve a threat for it to be triggered. A dog can react by barking to try to keep the threat at a distance, some dogs invite the threat through confidence in their ability,  if the threat does not respect this distance the dog can react by fighting, freezing, exhibiting an incompatible behaviour as a result of conflict, or it can go into flight.  The reaction you will get depends on genetics and experience. As you can see there are a lot of different ascribed drives that can be placed within these two drives.

I just saw a good show on the American moutain lion. A mother had delivered a live impala [ smaller than the cubs] to her litter. They ''played'' with it for a long time. it looked like torture without the knowledge it was mom's teaching moment. After a while one ''kit'' decided to kill the prey. if they ''played'' like that as adults i would assume a lot of the prey animals could have escaped. What drive could be more serious than a drive where the animal kills? If in defence drive the animal chases away the opponent, is that as serious? Both drives must be in a blend to be effective in our GSDs.

Ibrahim:

                 I have 2 puppies from my most recent litter at home there 10 weeks old this last Sunday. While out side they will play with each other stalking and attack each other it is humorous to watch but it is a valuable learning period for them. I would not call it drive but educational play. This also helps build pack placement.  It helps build confidence and skill. At this age i take a old fishing rod and have a old rag on it and cast it out and let them chase it back they can,t see the line and this also builds prey drive.   

Thinking about play/prey I don´t remember any game (play) without prey, be it a ball. a stick, a rag, or food.
Even a happy dog running in crazy circles ( I think all of us have seen this once in a while ) is in play/prey - there always is a trigger, be it its human ( come on, chase me! ) or something else - and normally the game changes once in a while - the chased one wants to chase later on ( and vice versa ).
Playing with littermates or "buddies" always has to do with pack placement ( or reproduction later on ) like Bob said.
They are "training", during the same time they are learning about dominance and submission.

Simply put, I think dogs are able to "play", but it´s always connected to prey or social behavior.
All these well named drives are difficult to isolate, there mostly are a lot of combinations out of anything.

Good subject Ibrahim, this one really gets me thinking

Interesting.

When young animals play, it is usually considered to be "practice" for adulthood (catching prey or running from it, asserting dominance within a group - herd, pack, etc.)

In this way they are similar. How are they different? Are they different?

I myself think that this play/prey is a very important aspect in the development of a good dog. As was said, the two go hand in hand and is one of the first concepts all puppies develope.

    A dog needs to play in prey in order to perfect it. Same as any prey animal. This is why wild animals brought up in captivity with limited play/prey cannot survive if they are returned to the wild.

      I also think this is what many pups that are raised in kennels/crates are deprived of during the most important stages of their development, thus leading to dogs that are lacking in the abilities to go on to be strong, stable and confident dogs.

AKA...the shitters of the breed, while the reality is, they are being bred and sold by the 'shit breeders'.