Training to Out - Page 1

Don't know who screwed that up but what is your method?/  Thx in advance  Nan

If you are starting with a pup then foundation work is to make the pup to  let go of a toy by being passive and motionless and then reward the pup who let go  with giving the bite back. This continues all the way to the point where you use sleeve. on your arm and then helpers arm.  There are many other methods for dogs who  are older and will not let go for one reason or another. But they all end up rewarding the dog 's out by giving him the sleeve or toy back.

 Prager Hans

make your dog understand and obey the command out in low drive during obedience training, only when he is 100 % clean there start the out on a pillow or sleeve, than you dont need to teach him anything there, only enforce your command if not obeyed

Mr. Hans Prager said-

There are many other methods for dogs who are older and will not let go for one reason or another. But they all end up rewarding the dog 's out by giving him the sleeve or toy back.

I'm very confused, because a video I watched and critiqued " in which Mr. Prager accused me of lying and not knowing who the handler was"  (I did not know who the handler was until he informed me that is was his business partner Puri )  held a dog over his shoulder while on a choke chain....... and choked the dog out until it "out'd"    and I must have missed the part of the video where the dog was rewarded the out by receiving the sleeve or toy back.

Please let me ......or all of us know how we missed that in the video on the other Thread

And please explain the foundation work you spoke of with pups, and how and why an adult dog could have missed that same foundation work.

Myself, .....as I am sure others on this forum........ would benefit greatly from your knowledge, business skills and integrity if only you could communicate with us on our uneducated level. This is nothing personal....you made a well thought out post, and I am simply asking for some clarification on what you said on his thread as opposed to the other thread(s) on the same subject.

 

Just.....the opinion of Mr. Kim Moore,Civilian Dog Owner

 

ps; Mr Prager ...I can post many videos of how I raise my pups and I am not concerned about the dreaded "AR movement" , why you can't post any videos of your pups being raised? Are you not the Defender of Freedom of Speech , anti communism, anti this, anti that...... America... the land of the free and home of the Gypsies?

 

^^^^^^ROFLMAO !

The purpose of lifting the dog up is not teaching it to out. 

Mr. Prager, please be more cognizant of your posts, I believe that your last comment should have been directed to this thread;

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=799117-lift-versus-out

Try and keep up with what you post and say

Thank you

 

Kim

I like to teach the commands that I will be using later on, from day one.. So in this case when we play tug I use the out instead of release. Ripping my pants up, out. When its time to stop ripping my hands and arms up :),  they are outed instead of leave it. By the time they get to see a puppy sleeve, they are almost very reliable on out already. 

Gigante, I graciously disagree. I like using multiple commands. I use one when they're ripping my pants up and one when its a tug/ball/rag. I reward the out on the toy by giving it right back, like Pirate Lair's buddy, Hans, said. Now, how do I immediately reward the dog when he releases my pants? Should I have bacon in my pocket, or a tug at all times? And I like the out of a toy to be a good thing, not the same with my pants.

I like having multiple commands. Here means a frontal. I use that in training, trial and only in special need. If I am in the yard and I just want him near, it's come.

Perhaps you don't, or don't plan on trials. In that case, I understand. But when someone uses the word out , I associate it with something other than releasing the plastic Frisbee.

---------------------------------------------------

Ideally, you can train it like Hansy said. But not every dog is the same. You can have a dog that releases the ball in obedience like gold, but in protection....at this point, consult a good trainer, not an internet guy.

Chaz great point there are different reasons for out.  I missed that one thinking only of positive out from toy or lseeve. So you are  using one command  as a negative and another one as a part of the bite work exercise which is really positive out.  I am not saying that different command for different connotation is wrong as a matter of fact it is great point.   Here is another  different approaches distinquishing positive and negative out.  

 

You may  for  "pants " release say "No! Out" and for toy sleeve release I use "Out -Yes!"->reward by rebite.  It is always out, but connotation is either positive or negative. There is then  reward of  the positive connotation and  no reward for negative connotation.  That way the dog learns what is socially accepted and what is not.  

 Another approach is for training of release of the sleeve or toy  one can use out - Yes!-> reward sequence. And for socially unacceptable out on pants ripping  just use "No. That is if you worry that the "OUT"  command could get inherit negative connotation with the "No-Out!" In this approach you would eliminate such possibility. In this approach the believe is "No" is used in a way -"Stop doing what ever you doing " and there is no multiple "NO"s for each different possibility  but all encompassing "NO!" for all inappropriate behavior.

I personally use the last approach  most often. Any approach is OK as long as you are consistent and as long as it matches the rest of the training. of obedience. ( Bite release is really Obedience) 

 Another approach specifically with very young pups where you do not want to use any negative connotation with bite is to pull the pup from the pants firmly but gently and redirect the attention to desirable toy-or tug... That approach goes with the adage that the drive is inherited and what the dog is using it or not using it on is learned. Thus we teach the pop NOT to bithe the pants and redirect it on what we want him to use it on which is a toy of sleeve or later on man ( in case pp). Another adage is what the dog learn first he will lern best , like most and revert to under the stress. Thus biting on the pants is maybe cute but not desirable for many reasons.