Why not US gsd's - Page 1

Is there a good reason that most, by a good margin, gsd's in higher level, regionals on up to world level, are not home bred, meaning here in US? And the ones that are have import pedigrees a generation or two back.

The short answer is because we have been taught that we can't breed good GSD's in the US, they must come from Europe. The German judges see to it that Am bred dogs never place too high at important SV shows and, as far as I know, every judge who oversees those shows comes here from Germany. We have no homegrown SV judges and never will unless the rules change dramatically.

IMO It's a system that is set up to fail MOST US breeders.

I'm not sure the SVF and SVR judges in the US would agree with that or the North American breeders that have been successful at the World Level would either.

Dog 1 

It´s not about Germany, it´s not about judges....
it´s about breeding programs, and it´s about training, and it´s about staying power.

Blitzen, we do agree often, but not in this case.
Nobody "taught" you that you can´t breed good dogs.
Breeding good dogs needs a lot of time, experience, money, and dedication.
You do have all the current bloodlines over there, no matter if working or showline, but only a few people are truly interested in the breed.
Most people want immediate success/money without effort.
Money sells...

A lot of the dogs competing in the upper levels were purchased already titled or as started young dogs.  It is a numbers game.  There are just more options for choosing these dogs in Europe.   There also aren't a lot of breeders in the US breeding working dogs (whether for work or sport) and most of those produce very few litters.  Of the few that do even fewer of those want to keep back puppies to sell later. 

There are some good dogs being produced in the US.  Just not enough of them. 

Lisa

And as long as US buyers and breeders refuse to support one another, it will never change, Susie. It's a mindset in the US - you have to go to Germany to get a good dog plus the initial cost of the dog is less than here and that's big selling point for many. It cuts both ways - it's good for German breeders but not so good for breeders in the US who really want to breed good dogs. They need to be able to place them in the right homes, but most can't because their dogs aren't winning the big shows - a very big deal to some buyers . Why aren't they winning the higher placements? Is it because their dogs are not as good as the German-bred dogs or because the German judges/the SV want it that way?  Something needs to change or it will never be any different. Do most German breeders really want the US to have dogs that win the big shows?  Why are there no US born SV judges?

US breeders will never be able to breed competitive  dogs as long as breeders here continue to import their show and breeding stock, that's just a fact of the way things work in the dog world. Many won't buy US bred dogs for show/breeding because they don't/won't/can't win the big shows, not a smart way to select breedng stock for sure, but it it what it is. Show wins sell GSD's in the US. I think there are quite a few GSD breeders in the US who would be more willing to put more effort into breeding better dogs, some already do that, but without buyers who are willing to buy those dogs, train them and show them, the status quo will prevail into infinity.

Again, IMO a system that is set up to fail all but the most elite of the US breeders. I'm referring here only to showlines.

 

Susie, I think both you and  Blitzen are right (talking about her general feeling on this topic, not just posts in this thread. There are several going on right now on this topic). You're correct that they do it because they sell and people want money fast. However, Blitzen's theory seems to ring true, too. You can have a truly world class litter right here in the US and someone who is just getting enough knowledge about GSDs to be dangerous will go and buy a pup overseas that isn't even as nice of a dog BECAUSE it needs to take a longer plane ride. ESPECIALLY people breeding more than a couple litters per year! They use the mystique of the "import" to lure in ignorant buyers. You can even have import parents and buyers will go back to Europe to buy a pup they know nothing about, when yours were right here to see. While I'm browsing ads, I see a LOT of US breeders using imported stock- not anything special, either- basically, they're just puppies they bought overseas and now they're breeding them 2 years later and the fact that they're imports is really all they're using to lend credibility to their quality, as if every puppy becomes breed-worthy somewhere over an ocean en route to the US, lol. There are breeder websites using the claim to fame that their dogs are higher quality because they are imports themselves or their parents are imports. 

I recently did a breeding between a dog I bred and an older, imported male who was trained in the US and only sent back to Germany because the owner was German and he wanted him surveyed there. Basically, he's still an American dog with a German owner, but his papers are from Germany and my dog's papers are AKC. She herself was bred in Germany and imported in her dam's uterus. When that litter was born, I was questioned as to why I didn't try to get pink papers on them. Why? Because I'm American and it was my breeding. It simply took place in Germany. Now, 4.5 years later, here I am explaining why I bred this gorgeous "import" (not really, but they don't understand that) male to a female who had the misfortune of being born in this country. <roll eyes>. Granted, the folks who have asked that are not qualified homes anyway, but my point is that the mystique of the import is very often enough to sell pups and everyone buying on this criteria is furthering the stigma against American born and bred dogs, even when the foundation lines are very good quality European line dogs. 

Until people don't think European=better and American=lesser, everyone is going to keep importing, whether they're importing quality stock or not. And the judges are going to keep being flown in from Germany and being unfamiliar with the American bred dogs and therefore they're not going to fare as well and so on and so on. And people will still buy pups from Germany, wait 2 years, and breed them and sell pets to thousands of people for $800-$2500, all on the allure of the "import mystique" and little to nothing else. 

Blitzen,

You are absolutely correct when you say our system is set up to fail. It's our culture. We spend more time squabbling than creating the environment and opportunity to promote the breed.

Talking about showlines - there are OUTSTANDING puppies shown every year at the American Siegershows - BUT most of the people don´t train them ( for the show and for the trials ).
Training dogs is a lot of work, day by day, the whole year round. Most of the Americans I met want success, but no hard work.
A judge wants to see a well trained dog in the ring, able to move well, able to get stacked, able to behave.
A dog not trained well won´t win, no matter if this dog is American bred or German bred.
No difference in sport - a good dog does need a lot of foundation work, later on you need to train almost every day (tracking, obedience, bitework ).
Without that no success...
And after all there only is ONE winner, but at least in my country a lot of people trying to win their whole life.

Until people don't think European=better and American=lesser, everyone is going to keep importing, whether they're importing quality stock or not. And the judges are going to keep being flown in from Germany and being unfamiliar with the American bred dogs and therefore they're not going to fare as well and so on and so on. And people will still buy pups from Germany, wait 2 years, and breed them and sell pets to thousands of people for $800-$2500, all on the allure of the "import mystique" and little to nothing else. 

My feelings exactly, Jenni. It's a cannibalistic mind set that must change if US breeders are ever to receive any recognition. I see no end to it.