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by cborso22 on 30 October 2013 - 09:10
Morning all sorry this is long!
A few weeks ago I wrote on here about my dog constantly barking at people/other dogs while outside. We have worked on that and it has greatly subsided, however, now I am faced with a bigger issue. Vader is just about 8 months old and 6 weeks post-op for OCD surgery. Recently, he has begun growling at children. This is obviously something I am very concerned about. We do not have kids(but plan to), and are not exposed to kids often. I made multiple efforts to socialize him with children as a puppy, however, I do not think Vader is comfortable around children. Right now I do not trust him around children.
He has begun to growl at children when they approach. I have started correcting this with a sharp prong correction and a verbal no. It happened the first two times in my neighborhood while on walks. Once in the dark and the kids were running towards us(coming down the stairs) and once after he was spooked by an older gentleman(assuming the odd clothes he was wearing, but this again was something we worked on as a puppy) and then a child asked to pet him. He is the current age for a fear period, so I am not sure if this could have something to do with it.
Yesterday I took him to a playground with paths that run through it. We worked on some basic obedience (on leash with a prong, and treats) and he did well ignoring the kids around us. That is until two separate incidents where kids tried to approach. I backed us away while explaining they could not pet him that we were working on being comfortable around kids( the mothers were present and seemed okay with this explanation). Vader growled both times at the kids approach, even though I would estimate they were 10 feet away. Its as if the fact that they are coming his direction worries him. He seems particularly uncomfortable around toddlers and kids under 10.
I plan to continue outings where kids are present so we can train around kids and work on this. Other than that does anyone have any advice? Last time I wrote people advised me to get a trainer. With all the money we are still putting into his rehab(and surgery), this is currently not an option. I am aware I cannot trust him around kids right now. I’m not returning him/giving him up. Again, please help!
A few weeks ago I wrote on here about my dog constantly barking at people/other dogs while outside. We have worked on that and it has greatly subsided, however, now I am faced with a bigger issue. Vader is just about 8 months old and 6 weeks post-op for OCD surgery. Recently, he has begun growling at children. This is obviously something I am very concerned about. We do not have kids(but plan to), and are not exposed to kids often. I made multiple efforts to socialize him with children as a puppy, however, I do not think Vader is comfortable around children. Right now I do not trust him around children.
He has begun to growl at children when they approach. I have started correcting this with a sharp prong correction and a verbal no. It happened the first two times in my neighborhood while on walks. Once in the dark and the kids were running towards us(coming down the stairs) and once after he was spooked by an older gentleman(assuming the odd clothes he was wearing, but this again was something we worked on as a puppy) and then a child asked to pet him. He is the current age for a fear period, so I am not sure if this could have something to do with it.
Yesterday I took him to a playground with paths that run through it. We worked on some basic obedience (on leash with a prong, and treats) and he did well ignoring the kids around us. That is until two separate incidents where kids tried to approach. I backed us away while explaining they could not pet him that we were working on being comfortable around kids( the mothers were present and seemed okay with this explanation). Vader growled both times at the kids approach, even though I would estimate they were 10 feet away. Its as if the fact that they are coming his direction worries him. He seems particularly uncomfortable around toddlers and kids under 10.
I plan to continue outings where kids are present so we can train around kids and work on this. Other than that does anyone have any advice? Last time I wrote people advised me to get a trainer. With all the money we are still putting into his rehab(and surgery), this is currently not an option. I am aware I cannot trust him around kids right now. I’m not returning him/giving him up. Again, please help!
by Ruger1 on 30 October 2013 - 10:10
Without the means to get outside help from a good trainer I don't know what your options are except to continue what you are doing in socializing ...The only experience I have to offer you is that my male GSD was exactly as you describe at the same age,,I hope others with a greater knowledge on the behavior will chime in here and offer their advice,,Giving advice on aggression issues over the Internet is very difficult and many trainers feel uncomfortable doing that,,
I am thinking that the sharp prong correction might be escalating the problem when it comes to this kind of aggression..I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the sharp prong corrections didn't work with my male it made him worse ,,.Then again, maybe it was my technique,,Please do everything you can to address the issue now before he matures anymore,,
Where are you located?..What is his breeding ?..
I am thinking that the sharp prong correction might be escalating the problem when it comes to this kind of aggression..I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the sharp prong corrections didn't work with my male it made him worse ,,.Then again, maybe it was my technique,,Please do everything you can to address the issue now before he matures anymore,,
Where are you located?..What is his breeding ?..
by joanro on 30 October 2013 - 10:10
The prong correction may have created an association of: kids = pain
Backing him away when kids are ten feet away is reinforcing his suspicion of them. Why do you need a prong? If you anticipate a problem when kids are in the vicinity, he is sensing your tension and it's reinforced by you backing him away from them...that is the same thing one would do with their dog if a rattle snake was encountered.
You need a trainer.
Backing him away when kids are ten feet away is reinforcing his suspicion of them. Why do you need a prong? If you anticipate a problem when kids are in the vicinity, he is sensing your tension and it's reinforced by you backing him away from them...that is the same thing one would do with their dog if a rattle snake was encountered.
You need a trainer.
by joanro on 30 October 2013 - 10:10
I would advise you to stop making encounters with kids a negative. Look for an obedience class...they usually are inexpensive and would be better than going this on your own.
by fawndallas on 30 October 2013 - 10:10
I had a similar issue with one of my pups at that age. What I did is have kids come up to the pup and offer ice cream. This way, the pup associates kids with something great and grand. I also always firmly corrected the growl.
She is now 18 months. She is still leary of children, but no longer growls or becomes defensive. In my case, this is ok, as I no longer have small children coming in our home.
She is now 18 months. She is still leary of children, but no longer growls or becomes defensive. In my case, this is ok, as I no longer have small children coming in our home.
by cborso22 on 30 October 2013 - 10:10
Thanks for the responses. I guess I may have been making the problem worse by the corrections and negative associations. I was just concerned more would come after the growling(although he has never lunged or tried to do anything further). I read on multiple websites to give the correction for growling at children so they know it is never okay. I will start researching different methods, I like the idea of the kids giving out yummy treats to the dog..I will start looking into trainers again and hopefully find one that isn't too expensive. I am in Maryland and my dogs pedigree is http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1966231-viper-von-falkenhein.
by fawndallas on 30 October 2013 - 11:10
More details: The firm correction was a redirect attention to me with a "no growl" command. As soon as her focus became complete on me (and not the child) my girl was reward for a "good focus."
My thought was to teach her to look to me as a leader for handling uncomfortable situations.
As the others have stated, your pup needs to have some more structured training. You can do this yourself, but it will take full and daily dedication on your part. There are some good training instructions available by DVD. I found though that for the price of a couple of DVDs, I could go to an obedience class once a week for the same price and have a support network.
My thought was to teach her to look to me as a leader for handling uncomfortable situations.
As the others have stated, your pup needs to have some more structured training. You can do this yourself, but it will take full and daily dedication on your part. There are some good training instructions available by DVD. I found though that for the price of a couple of DVDs, I could go to an obedience class once a week for the same price and have a support network.
by cborso22 on 30 October 2013 - 11:10
We did do a petsmart class for puppies from 10 to 16 weeks once a week, but really just for socialization as he knew all the topics. Im hestitant to do another class like that because it didn't seem to provide that much structure. I am completely willing to change my methods. I called a local trainer for a quote, so well see what happens with that..i just really can't spend hundreds on training right at this moment. We have just set up a playdate with an aquaintence and her son to feed him goodies.
by fawndallas on 30 October 2013 - 11:10
Yeah, pet smart classes are kind of worthless. I found an obedience club that did 6 week classes for $100. Although we knew most of the things, it gave me some good network and socialization . They also polished things, so I could get the CGC on the pup. The club does other things, like agility, so I am able to keep moving.
look into the different dog clubs around. They can be a good and cheaper way to go until you can afford the more expensive training.
look into the different dog clubs around. They can be a good and cheaper way to go until you can afford the more expensive training.
by Hired Dog on 30 October 2013 - 11:10
Do NOT allow strangers, kids included, to feed the dog anything. YOU reward the dog for giving you proper behavior. The dog's desire to lunge/growl/bite a child may be temporarily suppressed by the treats, but, if it ever walks up to an unsuspecting child thinking it will get food and gets patted instead, because the child has no food nor understands what the dog wants, there is a good chance that the kid may get bitten...you do not want to deal with that, ever. Again, you feed the dog treats when it behaves in a manner consistent with your needs.
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