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by vonissk on 13 September 2013 - 04:09
This boy was an Am Ch--the first CH of any breed to also have performance and herding titles. This is about 20 yrs/ ago. I think he is a beautiful boy. Just wondered what you guys thought of him.................
by sentinelharts on 13 September 2013 - 12:09
IMO, He is a great example of the beginning of the division between the ASL and the GSL dogs. I don't mind his looks nearly as much as some of the ASL dogs of late. He still has that roman nose and the shoulder & chest assembly of a showline dog. (which is not appealing to my eye)
It would be nice to see more AKC showdogs doing herding or any other sport...
by Ibrahim on 13 September 2013 - 12:09
Hi Vonissk,
I find his front upper arm steep and his shoulder blade is forward placed (it is almost within his neck), that said it amazes me that his withers are well defined and long and not affected by the forward placement of the shoulder blade.
Very good head, neck needs more substance, good croup position but could use more length, thigh is slightly narrow, good stifle turn, good hocks and feet, good proportions, good chest length and depth, good loin, pasterns are slightly steep.
Ibrahim
I find his front upper arm steep and his shoulder blade is forward placed (it is almost within his neck), that said it amazes me that his withers are well defined and long and not affected by the forward placement of the shoulder blade.
Very good head, neck needs more substance, good croup position but could use more length, thigh is slightly narrow, good stifle turn, good hocks and feet, good proportions, good chest length and depth, good loin, pasterns are slightly steep.
Ibrahim
by vonissk on 13 September 2013 - 14:09
Thanks you guys. Oh yes I know he wasn't perfect, but as you said Sentinel he's damn sure better looking than what you see today. The reason I asked your thoughts was the lady saved semen on him and now has a black son from him and I have an opportunity to breed to him. I wasn't going to go this route but I like this dog and I like those old lines. They are old self thinking, utility type dogs..........anyway we'll see.................
by susie on 13 September 2013 - 15:09
Coming from the SV-style side the angulation of upperarm and shoulderblade would be a no-go for me.
Difficult to get rid of this in future generations.
Difficult to get rid of this in future generations.
by GSDNewbie on 13 September 2013 - 15:09
IMO there are other AKC studs out there even these days that I prefer. I am not a fan of this dog's front or his front paws. His pasterns are short and steep, Rear angulation is good, length of body and topline and underline but I feel he light in bone IMO and I just do not like the front at all.
by Sunsilver on 13 September 2013 - 15:09
What's his pedigree, Voniisk? I agree with what was said above, esp. the shoulder. It is possible to find American dogs with better shoulders than that.
Personally, I like this dog, from a local breeder:
http://www.lorettokennels.com/ourmales.html (Madeb's Fury) (Sorry, Morris, can't say I'm in love with Jack! Now, let's see you get some performace titles on Fury, as well as his temperament test and CGN! With those sheep on your property, you could easily do at least a HIC on him!)
Personally, I like this dog, from a local breeder:
http://www.lorettokennels.com/ourmales.html (Madeb's Fury) (Sorry, Morris, can't say I'm in love with Jack! Now, let's see you get some performace titles on Fury, as well as his temperament test and CGN! With those sheep on your property, you could easily do at least a HIC on him!)
by vonissk on 13 September 2013 - 16:09
Sun I knew as soon as I looked at that dog he had Color Guard. Bec would love him but I'm not so impressed--too extreme angulation for my tastes. I really like his head.
OK I really appreciate everything you guys have shared and I appreciate the honesty.
Here is Bear's 4-generation pedigree:
Here is Cassie's 4-generation pedigree (Champions are in red):
Anyway there is the pedigree--I have some pics from a show and I'll have to go through them and see if I can copy it. They are proofs on the photographer's page--if I can I will post it.
OK I really appreciate everything you guys have shared and I appreciate the honesty.
Here is Bear's 4-generation pedigree:
| Can.Ch. Hillside's Sheyenne | |||
| Am.Ch. Cassey v Beibtreu | |||
| Willomere's Bianka | |||
| Am.Ch. Caralon's Brix von Sentez, OFA | |||
| Am.Ch. Caralon's Thor v Howard | |||
| Caralon's Ina v Sentez, OFA | |||
| De Walt's Dixie Koi-Koi | |||
| Am.Ch. Caralon's Jedi of Brookwood, OFA Good (H&E) | |||
| Am.Ch. Eko-Lan's Paladen, ROM | |||
| Am.Sel. Am.Ch. Doppelt-Tay's Hawkeye, ROM | |||
| Doppelt-Tay's Jessette | |||
| Walkoway's Hialeah of Caralon, OFA | |||
| Am.Sel. Am./Can.Ch. Cobert's Reno of Lakeside, OFA, ROM | |||
| Am.Ch. Brandy v Rosshaus, CD, OFA | |||
| Am.GV Am.Ch. Cathwar's Lisa v Rob, ROM | |||
| Am.Sel. Am./Can.Ch. Cobert's Reno of Lakeside, ROM, OFA | |||
| Am.Ch. Rasputin von Rosshaus | |||
| Am.GV Am.Ch. Cathwar's Lisa v Rob, ROM | |||
| 2X Am.Sel. Am./Can.Ch. Frack von Rosshaus, X-rayed clear | |||
| #2 Am.Sel. Am.Ch. Dot-Wall's Vance, ROM | |||
| Cathwar's Cassamataz | |||
| Am.Ch. Lorjo's Donka | |||
| Glendhenmere's Gretchen OFA Good (H&E) - 6 points (4-point Major) | |||
| V1 Uwe von der Felsenkluft, SchH III | |||
| Royal Heritage Lex vh Dexel, CD, TC, OFA | |||
| SG Karin von Sudfeld, SchH I, 1970 Youth Siegerin | |||
| Danlyn's Kaja, Am./Can.CD, AD, OFA, Am./Can. points | |||
| Am.Ch. Keno von Cellar Schloss | |||
| Tolapat's Legend of Danlyn, CD | |||
| Shaunyan's Dawn til Dusk | |||
Here is Cassie's 4-generation pedigree (Champions are in red):
| 4xSel. Ch. Stuttgart's Sundance Kid, ROM, OFA GS-11841 | |||
| 5xSel. AmCh./CanGV Ch. Hoheneichen Conan Survival, ROM/ROMC, OFA24F | |||
| Hoheneichen's Bliss | |||
| Ch. Asgard's Coq Au Vin, OFA GS24F EL24 | |||
| 2x Sel. Ch. Langenau's Beau of Jeanden, ROM, OFA GS-17831 | |||
| Ch. Langenau's Coceau of Jan-D | |||
| Brasbans Fame v Langenau, ROM, OFA | |||
| Ch. Ich Dien von Haus Aye, OFA GS-52859F30M-T EL7825-T, Black, whelped 12-4-95 | |||
| Sel. Ch. Maverick of Bob-Lyn, ROM | |||
| Ch. Tora's Ghostrider, OFA24G | |||
| Nike-Clayfield Champagne, OFA24E | |||
| Karilynne's Jena v Pana Negra, OFA GS40G EL40 | |||
| 3xSel.Ch. Deannson's On Broadway,CD,SchH1, OFA GS-11968 | |||
| Pana Negra v Stabsparrenstab | |||
| Plamarck's Charo | |||
| Ch. Jericho's Tioga of Castlehill, HT, OFA GS-32107G24 | |||
| Jericho's Nieman-Marcus, CD, TC, HIC, Sable, OFA GS-40897E24 EL4246 | |||
| Windyridge's Chelsea, Blk/Tan, OFA40E, EL40 | |||
| Ch. Erem's Pacman v Nightwind,CD,TC, OFA GS-55919G24 EL9917, Blk/Tan, whelped 5-15-97 | |||
| Am/Can Ch. Nike Clayfield Andretti, ROM, Blk/Tan, OFA43G | |||
| Nightwind's Desert Peace, TC, HIC, Blk/Red, OFA Good H&E | |||
| Kingston's Texy Southwind, Blk/Red | |||
| Reidsan Lucy fur vd Pacman, Blk/Tan, PennHip, whelped 1-18-01 | |||
| Bonny Del Catone | |||
| Carlos Di CA San Marco, SchH3 | |||
| Connye Di CA San Marco | |||
| Reidsan Di Oroval Thia Inter/Ch., Blk/Tan, whelped 7-20-92 | |||
| Bill Vom Wildsteiger Land | |||
| Bahia Di Oroval, SchH1, 2b SPV Select1 JH Sieger Italy | |||
| Ala Dell Oliero | |||
Anyway there is the pedigree--I have some pics from a show and I'll have to go through them and see if I can copy it. They are proofs on the photographer's page--if I can I will post it.
by GSDNewbie on 13 September 2013 - 16:09
This is the sire to him? http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=451377-hillsides-sheyenne
Not much information available.
Not much information available.
by vonissk on 13 September 2013 - 17:09
Caraolens Jedi of Brookwood is the pictured dog's sire.
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