Displacement vs Avoidance - Page 1

Wondering about peoples opinions on this topic.

I am fairly seasoned dog person and want to see what others think.  IYO is displacement a form of aviodance.  Some will say that if the dog while in PP training displays these type of behaviors like sniffing the ground, looking at distant objects that this is not avoidance.  But peeing and hiding behind the handeler would be avoidance. 

It seems to me to be avoidance to a lesser degree but still avoidance. 

Displacement is a form of avoidance by sheer definition, "A psychological defense mechanism in which there is an unconscious shift of emotions, affect, or desires from the original object to a more acceptable or immediate substitute "
Although I am not proficient at PP training I am an animal behavorist proficient in canine body language and behavior. IMO it is avoidance.
 

Have you ever seen a dog that has never been exposed to any type of training like this? One that has super strong nerves and simply does not get over excited by someone trying to elicit a defensive action out of it?
Unless you can observe the ENTIRE dog's mood/body language, you cannot for sure tell if its indeed going into avoidance. What is the helper doing during this observation, how far is he from said dog, how skilled is he/she, how much training has this dog had? ALL these things need to be taken into consideration before we can comment on this.

I used the assumption the helper was actively trying to engage the dog, otherwise no need to wonder.

Yes I have seen that in one very confident dog a Czech gsd.  He couldnt give 2 craps about the decoy untill he (I) flanked him then he would fire up give a full mouth bite then go gback to not caring about you at all.  And he was not in avoidance at all.  Their is always a counter example.

However I would not call that displacement either.  Just nerves so solid coupled with no suspission.

You wrote:

"Yes I have seen that in one very confident dog a Czech gsd.  He couldnt give 2 craps about the decoy untill he (I) flanked him then he would fire up give a full mouth bite then go gback to not caring about you at all.  And he was not in avoidance at all.  Their is always a counter example."

I disagree. Any PPD that needs the pain stimulation of flanking to engage the decoy is a poor choice for protection work. Unless of course you get the bad guy to flank your protection dog before he tries to rob or murder you. I'm amused at the tendancy to work all PPD's in defense. Most of the time the bad guy is
threatening YOU not your dog. A full mouth bite is genetic for the most part and has little to do with
temperament. A dog that doesn't react to prey moves or threats or whip stimulation and only reacts to flanking is NOT a confident dog and is in avoidance IMO


Thomas Barriano
Dubheasa Germania (11/05/99-08/11/08) SchH III M R Brevet AKC WD III AWD 1 STP 1 CD WAC TT
Ascomannis Jago (06/20/03) SchH III AKC WD III AWD I TT WAC
Belatucadrus (08/14/05) DS BH TT MR I
Flannchadh von der Bavarianburg (5/21/08) BH STP I

I would love to see video of both dogs mentions above.

Thomas Im not saying that he was the best canidate for PP.  Rather that the behavior was not due to displacement, aviodance or for that matter nerves.  This particular dog did however seem to need a bond with the handler to work to full potential.  I do agree that a full bite is genetic and also at least for a GSD has a lot to do with good nerves. 

IMO any dog that needs to be flanked to get him to bite is in avoidance. I might change my mind if I saw him in person or at least on a video, but it would be the first example I'd seen.

Thomas Barriano