Playing Getting Out Of Hand? - Page 1

I have a 5 month old female and a 18 month old male.

I got my 5 month old female at 11 weeks.  Ever since day 1, she constantly mouths my male in the face, neck, head, muzzle all the time.  In the beginning I figure this was their playing/pack structure stage, etc.  Well shoot to where we are now at the current ages and there is no sign of this stopping.  She constanly does it to him in the house, outside of the house and anytime she feels like it which seems like all the time.  She is up on her back legs on him mouthing him.  I thought he was just letting her get away with it as playing but this shit hasn't stopped and he doesn't put her in her place.  If she is outside and I let him out, she rushes him at the door and does it.  If I have him out and let her out of her crate she goes back at it.  If he lays down she is right on top on him doing it.  I mean really, no peace for him at all.

Do I put a end to this or let them figure it out.  I figured at 11 weeks to 5 months this would have stopped but it has no signs of letting up.  There isn't a lot of barking and growling. 

She is a baby still Ace, relax.

Most intact males will put the brakes
on that kind of stuff once they think
the puppy is old enough to knock it off.

Don't overthink stuff too much

My wife and I are going through something similar, but with reverse gender.  Our roughly 4 month old male Malinois does the same thing to our 4 year old GSD/Husky cross.  He gets so amped up at some points he just won't leave her alone.  Our female is telling him off, but he's relentless and her backlashing is getting more forceful.  She's not hurting him by any means, but it's a little concerning where this will go.  Some people have said that we should just let them work it out and although it may result in a dustup, it will eventually subside.

Our trainer said in no way should we be letting 'them' work it out.  We are in charge and they will behave as we wish them to.  Absolutely none of this in the house.  Rough play outside is fine as long as it doesn't go too far.


Our male pup was getting very bitey (he's getting better).  We began to think that this intense socialization outside with the female was translating to negative (biting) behaviour inside with us.  We now understand that it was mainly due to the fact that he wasn't respecting us as his leader, which we've been strongly working on.  Not sure about others thoughts on this.

the difficulty is multidimensional - First .. many people 'think' as a human ... I had to learn to change my thinking . change it to thinking as a dog thinks !!. play IS NOT a pastime . many factors occur in the play scenario/. Play is business. it has serious meaning and purpose , it not always tabout a pup having fun .. play has a very very serious dimension to it !!
     your pups are learning . for brevity i will skip all that is learned. each dog and addtional dog is a unique individual and between any two dogs the dynamics of the relationship are different , dependent on their temperaments and their experiences. . therefore one cannot always generalize: [ ie they will work it out] 
    on that note : WE must  always take responsibility in regards to what out dogs learn , the stimuli that causes the behavior  , the context in which they behave . Considering these things,  it is OUR  responsibilitgy to have complete control and management. We decide always what  is acceptable and not . Never ever do we leave anything up to the dogs or by happenchance. .. that is why we use as a tool collars and leashes. freedom is a privledge and it is earned. Now  there are a multitude of manners to manage as well as what goes on between two dogs. that is for you to decide. I won't make this a seminar except consider:
       as dogs learn , [ this is one reason they must stay in the litter for 7.5 - 8 weeks] they learn dog communication . they learn the signals , the expressions . for example in play a dog turning away may signal " you are playing to rough ', 'give me some breathing room ', 'take it easy'  , and to extremes ' i have had enough'.
       I decided to post , because one of the worst scenarios about a dog is that it either has not proprely learned dog  signals  or that it REFUSES [, in anmy contect,  to acknowledge those signals given by another dog or human!!. That will lead to a very unruly and problematic adult dog. I have seen a number of " bully , aggressive" dogs due to the owners inability or refusal to take control .  
      In the dogs mind : " the decision to do NOTHING  about it's behavior is the PERMISSION to continue doing it ". Also permisssion to repeat  . The behavior will become self satisfying and ingrained within the dog. TOnce ingrained it will be not so easy to terminate it.
     Some paring of dogs .. yes they will work out the conflicts and present resolutions .. But in other pairs of dogs - no way .. they may not .  .. that conflict , non-resolved is a pot , getting hot , ready to boil over or explode. what happens if the temepraments of the dog are both very domineering and assertive with neither dog ready and ever willing to submit or relinquish ? ...     Good Luck !!
    i have 11 in my house , 9 always all together !@! i have 1 pup now 10 months , at 5 months old [ 20 weeks ] she took on her mother and grandmother , relentlessly . It was my responsibility to teach her , ensure respect and manners to the others, to ensure that she mind her place and to akcnowledge  and pay heed to the signals that they gave to her. If they expressed enough - she was going to learn that and leavew the,m alone - it wadsn't an option . it just is the weay to be . I managed the situation !! Today at 10 months I certainly  know she will be the most dominant. At 10 months , she now has her rank order and respects the other dogs. If i let the situation go unchecked , there would have in time been ? blood . Now there is harmony & order amoung all 11. .
             other posters can give you the tools and advice regarding management . My intent is to make clear , that not always should two dogs be left to 'work it out' - what happens iof they don't  because we gave thne green light to continue ? Not to say that some pairs won't or can't resolve their own conflicts. /../but if you are going to err. err on the side of being responsible and in control - if you see that signals aren't obeyed and you see they aren't working it out. . In addtion - i did not get into the reasons underlying the behavior of the pups . that is a whole seminar too . Animals [ in general] should ALWAYS respect other animals .

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN APUP???

We each have our theories/ideas/experiences. And remember what works here might not work there. Realize what you want and if unsure then seek advice and opinions. (Not saying that isn't what you have done). 

My 17 mo old girl is a feisty one. At ? 3 mos. she was "attempting" to take on the other female, (at that time a little over a yr. old) I watched closely and read a couple of times on the PDB that you can't (or it's not wise) to have two adult females under the same roof. I don't believe that. But I do believe I AM THE MASTER. Over one, over ten! Arabella is a strong girl and she would in the beginning be constantly "at" Anastacia. I would let some moments happen to one, give her experience, build her confidence to an extent. Give her exercise and other things. I was always present and at that "line" things would be stopped.

Now, when and if she attempted this with my male, Reiker, if never made it to the first time. My avatar shows three of them together a few days after she arrived. Even though she is being submissive to Reiker he is still putting her in her place. She has never attempted, nor I believe she won't to "take on" or even harass Reiker.  

So, Bella might want to take the #1 Poston but not allowed and unacceptable. 95% of the time Ana has no problem saying "ENOUGH". The other 5% is where I come in. The three and the service dog get along fantastic. The two adult females get along fantastic.  For your situation, (I've stated before APUP is on a different level. In my eyes a decent amount of time has passed. To undue what has taken place will take some time also. I'm torn as in I see/understand/believe what both commentors; workingdogz and APUP have stated. IF it is truly constantly/non-stop then I personally think that is too much and your intervention should take place. These are just my thoughts.   

I have a similar situation with my 2 dogs.  They are 7 years apart.  My female who is 5 is dominant and tend to mount my male occassionally and antagonise him to rough sparring.  I never let the situation escalate.  My query is this.  My male dog who is 12 years old has always been top dog, not dominant but well balance English Springer.  Often he would lie next to me whether I am watching tellevision or by my computer.  Lately for the past year, my female GSD who is also quite independent has taken prime place (lol) next to me and watches my male dog if he comes close to me almost like guarding.  I just snap her out of it.  So far so good.

Should I start treating the female as a higher rank (so to speak) to maintain order especially during feeding times?  I feed them in separate rooms.  Just wondered if this makes any difference.

You know I see it as playing.  I mean 5 month old puppies will have tons of energy and will want to play all the time.  There is no growling or barking but she does mouth him a lot.  I do agree that if at any point in time he gets tired of it, he will put her on her ass.  Maybe he just has a high tolerance for it and it really doesn't bother him too much.  There have been a few times where he has gotten her and I have heard a yelp...lol.  I see that as, "somone just told her to quit it.".

My thing is how much involved do you become.  I feel that yes dogs should know I am number 1 but that to a certain point I shouldn't interfere in them sorting out the pack structure after that as I could possibly make it worse by shifting the balance.  I know many often say that in the wild, dogs learn who is who in the pack.  I mean in a pack of dogs is the pack leader going around and really policing every dog in the pack?  How much is the human influencing things by "trying to keep things fair"?

I am monitoring it though to make sure it doesn't get out of hand in terms of barking and growling as then it can escalate quickly but then also I guess I am also feeling that as a pup she does have to learn from another dog as well when it comes to how to behave.

As I am typing this Bob is abusing his sister a little, she takes it and Nemah doesn't take sh** from anybody. SHe has the look...... "I will so kick your ass for this one day."
For now, Bob's balls just dropped and I told her she needs to be nice to him, we want him to grow into a very confident young man!