some trainingpics from yesterday - Page 1

I had a very nice trainingday yesterday , and someone took pics

Nice pics ,looks like you had a good days training

As usual, nice job and nice pics. Which dog is that?

Jim

Duke ... I  have  diametrically different input than .. Jim .. this is no refelction on you -  i do not who trained  the dog , who is handling the dog ... nothing about you or your abilitities . I am not being critical or condescening . my purpose in posting  but is to merely and only merely point out  , ,. especially for new people to realize :   that these pictures are not representative of good training . perhaps you have done well in this endeavor with those you have worked with , for what you have to work with and wioth who . .. But if one wishes to post a pictures of exemplary training .. these are not  representative. . not even mediocre at best . although for you it was a  good day . for me seeing those pictures , i would have been ripping if that was my dog . I would have been offended if that was ,my dog , and  it  is not a job well done ... one got the job done , but very poorly . Duke ... if i were to say otherwise - i would not in my mind be truthful  and whoever trained , owned , handled this dog .. i would do a disservice to say otherwise. ... and YOU would not otherwise stop to think otherwise , nor would you seek the answers why , bettering yourself or the dog ... and surely .. those that helped this dog ,  have a long way to go in training dogs.  In sincerity , no intention to bash , or put anyone down .. that is not my nature . as a matter of fact duke i am wishing for you and more so the dog ... better. My HONEST OPINION ... and IMO not so much opinion bacause i can and will explain my statement. I had not posted on this PDB for a long time because e of many who think they are experts that are  in truth arrogant and condescending posters with nothing to constructively contribute . . i don't treat people like that .. but then I  desire newcomers to   get the most than can out of this site - theyu ARE here to better themselves/ their dogs. So ... in sincerity - no offense or ulterior motive to my post.

Alphapup,
Pitures are a snap shot of time, just an instant often less than a second.  I'm curious as to what you see in the pictures that I don't.  I see a very focused dog with excellent grips.  What am I mising from the four pictures? 

Jim

 jim ...  a picture is not just a snapshot  always in time  but  a picture is a thousand words .  So let's start with a definition for new comers.   Good  Obedience = when a dog is asked to perform a task : at that specific moment absolutely nothing , nothing else enters into the dog's mind such that the dog immediately  performs the task willingly and with joy. If this is not the case then obedience is absent, the dog merely compliaes.
            Given that ... look at the dog .. what is he saying ?  He is out of position in the heel [ this is no accident . This dog is saying that it is severly stressed . The dog is saying that it iquite  concearned. Look at the expression of the dogs lips., very very tense lips , . not a smile . They  are very tense.  This posture is not a pretty of a happy , relaxed dog.  To add, look at the body posture of the dog in the sit - stiff as a board ,. leaning backwards. An out of position sit and not even a straight sit at that. .. That is not a dog sitting with comfort , joy of spirit and mind. Leaning back and all the muscles stiff as a board. Look at the ears - way  way way back .. almost to it's backside if they could get there.  This is a speculation that i think leads to this picture. The dog is looking up to the handler but not at the handler [ can't even see the yes here ].. Looking up but , not  paying attention to the handler .. it is in compliance.. IMO : this picture is of a dog that was never taught attention well ,and got corrected many a time because of confusion . this is a picture of a dog , coping.[ coping behavior]. Most likely it desired to do one thing but pressure in training forced this dog to look up , not truly taught with understanding. So now it is compliance / an avoidance  .  I don't think this dog wants to perform , it gives the picture of a dog performimng due to fear.
            ditto - never learned the heel position correctly either. i think this dog was trained to fast ,did not clearly understand what was expected of it , then when it did not perform , it was MADE to !!.  This dog had a lot of compulsion placed on it .. i think conlflct has led this dog to be in the sit position in front , and by leanred behavior is anicipating a very very strong correction . This dog is in that position because it didn't learn to walk in that position , but to get into that postion . This is why you see the dog's  presentsation as a dog concerned ,. stressed. I beleive this sit in front has happened many a time  and . yes the dog looks up , in duress , and is anitcipating another harsh correction . almost as if it is trying to 'avoid' that too for being forward. Now ...  many a dog will at times get out of step ... sometimes due to the footwork of the handler, yet i have seen may a dog self correct/compensate . Or if needed a reprimand , the dog doesn't look like it is fearful /stressed.  As many would say .. it bounces back into drive .. I simply state the dog looks poised and maintains it's concentration and motivatiom. this dog appears so stressed that it looked up not being able to pay attention to the task . to reiterate , the dog is so concerned that it doesn 't realize that it is out  of position .
                the bite : this is qualified , but i do not see the dogs eyes. yes the head is turned , but not an inkling do i get that the eyes are open !!,. the other feature , this is not a great bite. the dog enountgers two feet in front of the helper . Again , the ears are way back .. this is not a dog to me that is expressing confidence. This dog at first glance , appears to be working well . But it is not . this dog is concerned in the bite work too !!. I never ever ever give a dog a bite ,. starting as a very ypoung pup , away from the body !! this is a frontal atttack .. i expect it to be near the body even with a correct catch - even if sent 40 yeards down field. . if it were a flee , ok for safety away from the body , for a correct catch. i liken this to a dog flying through the air to catch a frisbee.

alphapup , obviously you know more about my dog and my training than I myself do , you can see the quality of the dog from the position where she is sitting before I send her for bark and hold , I think we all should  have our dogs trained by you and become worldchampion

I can give you many pictures of training where her position in heeling is different , her position of ears is different and so on , so for me the value of your opinion based on 4 pics , is nothing more than  humorous

Nice pictures.. looks like you both are having a great time.

 this is a picture of a dog  with no  leash / no collar , holding it's position to be sent for a face /frontal attack , as i walk away . Look at the expression of this dog . The picture of is dark / we trained at night too . Does my dog look stressed , look at the ears and the alertness , the pover all general appearence of the dog . let the thread members compare and decide. The intentness is indicative hjow much this dog , LOVES it's tasks.  I had no intention toi be personal in my  commentary .. But i want the viewers to see how a dog with a good "attitude" presents . Including what a good training day , AND OBEDIENCE is!!

alphapup , you are a true smartass , your picture shows a dog that is not focussing on handler ,nor under control of handler , but handler is away and dog is waiting for the decoy to move , totally different situation

Im not training for flyball or doggydancing , with all due respect , but training this dog for competition , and yes , my dog is not smiling , because I dont want my dog to smile, if you know so much , youmust know that smiling dog means more relaxed , less focussed dog , I want focus and concentration , so I dont want smiling dog ,

is there pressure on my dog , sure there is , as I want my dog to do what I want , not what she wants ,

Is my dog looking to avoid correction ;NO , because I hardly correct her , train positive , she has a superclean out that NEVER has been forced , but trained only positive , bark and hold is on the ball , no pressurethere   and so on

I will look in the pictures if there is one of her just before escape , and post it here