collars and bitework training

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by starrchar on 13 August 2011 - 18:08

Every so often I'll see a video of a dog doing bitework training wearing a prong collar. I haven't been involved in Schutzhund for over 10 years, but back then we usually used a thick and wide leather flat collar or ocassionally someone would use a harness. I NEVER saw anyone use a prong collar. Have things changed? Using a prong collar for bitework training just doesn't sit well with me.

by sueincc on 13 August 2011 - 19:08

Why? As long as I've been in schutzhund (early 80s) we primarily use pinch collars, ecollars on adult dogs, you can't correct with an agitation harness or agitation collar. Agitation collars and harnesses are more for puppies when it's more about encouragement.

by Detroit SchH on 13 August 2011 - 19:08

By being "involved in Schutzhund" do you mean you put a SchH3 on your dog?
If you have seen a dog trained past a puppy circle, you would have likely seen a dog on
a prong collar to work control and Ob during bitework.
If things have changed in 10 years, they have gone more toward motivational-methods
and away from brute-force, compulsion.

Sheryl

by deacon on 13 August 2011 - 19:08

Same here. I use the collar for the agitation and while biting on one line and the other is attached to the prong to be used for any problems involved with the release. I have never heard of anybody in their right mind using the prong for agitation.

by von sprengkraft on 13 August 2011 - 19:08

I agree with Sheryl. Or, maybe you had dogs easy to control, who didn't need a prong collar for corrections.

After the bite and the carry, we hold the dogs by the fursaver for the civil aggression. Otherwise the dog is on the prong, which makes for better barking. It also is good to use on dogs who tend to "choke out" on a fursaver. Some dogs use an aggitation collar or harness, but at some point the dogs must learn not to choke themselves out. Also, we try to stay as close to trial conditions as possible. By the trial, the dogs are wearing only a fursaver, heeling free to the field for protection, as is necessary for the trial.

The dogs you handled had what titles?

Debbie

by starrchar on 13 August 2011 - 20:08

I'm really sorry because I should've been more specific. I am referring to the very early stages of training- youngsters or dogs new to the sport. Yes, later on when it came time for corrections the prong collar (usually along with the agitation collar) was used, sometimes on the dead ring and sometimes on the active ring, depending on the dog. One person used the E-collar on all of his dogs in the later stages.

by von sprengkraft on 13 August 2011 - 21:08

Some dogs are moved along quickly. It depends on the ability of the dog, handler, and helper to move the dog along in the training. My 10 mo old bitch is on a prong, which is best for her.

by OGBS on 13 August 2011 - 21:08

I think the problem that some people have with using a prong collar for protection is the same reason the general un-educated public has with using a prong collar for anything. A prong collar is a training tool, not a "correction device". If you are only using a prong collar for corrections, you are likely one who thinks an e-collar is only used for corrections. An experienced trainer, however, knows that both a prong collar and an e-collar can be used to stimulate a dog to get a desired result. It's all about how you use it.

by starrchar on 13 August 2011 - 22:08

Sorry, I was just expressing an observation and I didn't express it very well. I fully agree the prong collar has it's place and I use one myself.

by OGBS on 13 August 2011 - 22:08

Starrchar,
Don't ever be sorry about asking questions. Your question was a good one.
That is what makes you informed and a better trainer.
You saw something and didn't quite understand it and asked a question.
That is what you should do.
Hopefully you have a better understanding about why it is used.
Have a great weekend!

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