Second session - Page 2

Joan, I only think that it´s not easy to find the "perfect" helper ( and sometimes even the best helper is not the best helper for the special needs of my dog...).
Even if this helperwork is not perfect, it´s not bad. Even a helper needs to learn, but how should a helper learn without dogs?
The owner of a 4 years old male without any foundation in any kind of bitework will not try to get the next national competitor, but the goal "IPO" is reachable.

Sorry for the term "badmouthing" - I used Google translate for this term, I need the correct translation for the German word "zerreden" - this means to debate too much, to look for faults, and at the end everybody is unhappy, maybe "to talk something to death" is more correct.

Once again, sorry for this fault, but I really think it´s better to start somehow than to wait forever.

Oh, I agree Suzie, and I commend Gouda and his wife for the work they've done with their dog. But I have seen dogs that were capable as this dog is, only to be screwed up by an inadequate helper. Helpers need to learn by being an apprentice, working trained dogs, not by attempting to train a dog from scratch (that means from the very beginning ). There are much better "training helpers" around, even here the the US, one needs to research a lot to find them.

Btw, Gouda, if that's the same dog in your aviator, he IS a very handsome boy. :-)

Joan yr approach re helper is inarguable in a perfect world. but in the real world the majority make do with what they got.

are some dogs going to get messed up yes. will many reach their full potential no.

but how is that different to the best resourced scenario?


as long as yr ethics is good and there is no abuse let it be. some of the high level trainers in my book are simple dog abusers so there it makes the concept of the best way kind of slippery to define.


nice dawg gouda.

Problem is, vk, it doesn't take a perfect helper to work a dog properly and sufficiently in order to title the dog. Very poor, improper helper work will prevent a dog from being titled....not talking about reaching the sky here, just a basic IPO title.

actually having looked at the clip in more detail i think for a second session it went on way too long, that dog was not enjoying himself imo and just wanted it to stop, handler was way to physical and does not know how to reward the dog properly.

 

decoy seems like he is ego-driven, i would get that dog out of there ASAP.

 

jmo, no expert, anyone else actually take a close look?

No vk I don't see what you see, at all.

Joan, can I ask a question ?   Isn't it a bit difficult NOT to

feed a tug / pillow / sleeve to a dog, when the dog is back-tied ?

The man and wife team training him are far the best according to my wife and I.

They are very easy on a starter dog,and both are very humane.

I;ll try to keep you updated. We only go for lessond once a week.

Dont forget I have tittled a dog before.

 

Have a nice day guys and gals

 

Raining here,suppose to snow later on ,and the temp.drop to -2 this afternoon.

Going down to -7 tonite.

 

 John  {gouda}

P.S  VK4  THANKS FOR THE COMPLIMENT ON MY WIFE.

This fall will be our 50th   so fortunate to have  marriedt someone like her.

Forgot to mention,  This dog has been raised in the house and lives in the house,sleeps

beside my wifes bed,and lays at her feet during the day.

There is a complete under standing, and love betwween them.

I know a lot of people have givnv us flack about it,telling us we are treating the dog the wrong way.

Our dogs are a 1,000 times more important to us then any tittle they may attain.

Yes Joanro, that is the dog in my aviator.

Thankyou guys for your input,I'LL try to hang around this section of the forum,.Im thourily

enjoying it.

Please overlook some of my spelling,I'll do the best I can

  Your friend  John  {gouda}

HM, to answer your question; not for a skilled helper. Make a side pass, gives the dog slack as he crosses the imaginary circle and allows the dog to come up for the strike. But it takes a helper who knows how to properly work a dog on a back tie. Even if the handler is holding the dog , same move by the helper/ decoy. Shoving the tug, sleeve, wedge in the mouth is usually the move seen.....not correct tho.