Teaching the Recall - Page 2

Yes I use it to help teach a Retrieve in some circumstances,
but no I still don't drag 'em in by it.

Can you make your YouTube vid ref clickable,  please ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vp5eXsdnfg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

Cheers, Blitzen. : )

Thank you all soooooo much, and NO, I would not reel him in like a fish on a line;  just use long line as a guide and for safety.  I do like the method(s) used by Ivan B's video, so may try that also.  Thank you for posting that;    Nan

Vomeisenhaus, as I would expect, in that Ivan video the leash is only
being used as a brake,  not yanked on, and therefore it's much as I use it
[if needed in the Retrieve at all  - normally I don't find that necessary].

I was concerned that Nans decription of the technique she "hates"
would allow readers to suppose - as many beginners do - that the
purpose of the long line in correcting Recall problems was to wait
until the dog is 15 metres away from you and not responding to your
attempts to call him/her back to you, then pulling them back in to you
with the line.  I stand by what I said;  that would NOT be correct use
of long line technique.

So unless you can produce a relevant video by Ivan or someone of
similar stature, that shows where it is ever right to haul a dog in on a
piece of rope or leather, during  Recall training, I suggest that  you
'go forth & multiply', as they say.

"Some people have no business giving advice in training issues."  I will
give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that was just a totally
general remark, and not aimed at me.        But I notice that it is not
untypical of comments you have made on my posts before;  so, please, 
note that while you have every right to disagree with / argue against what
I post,  that does not give you any 'right' to be bloody rude at the same time !
I do not recall ever being equally nasty and dismissive of your posts.

You would do well to bear in mind that I will be 60 at my next birthday, I
have been handling dogs for 40+ years, and I did not get my training opinions from
some fresh-faced Behaviourism graduate 'yesterday' ;   and so, if you are unfair
and insulting to me, you also disrespect all the many good 'dog people' from
whose advice I have benefited over that 'lifetime in dogs', among which have
been many Police dog handlers.  Rant over.

Really Hundmutter I thank you personally for your experience and your assistance with any training methods suggested and more importantly NOT SUGGESTED.  Although I am not new to the dog world, I do feel it important to have more than one method to train especially something as important as the 'RECALL' and RETRIEVE also.  Both for my dog are very very important and useful.  So I do appreciate any input and especially your experience of years of training.  Thank you  Nan

Many AKC OB trainers use the "reel in" method to teach the dog to come when called. I've used that method myself and am not quiite sure what's so wrong about it, but AKC people and sport people seem to be living in different universes when it comes down to how to train a GSD and  for what.  Crowding the handler during the fuss is a prime example - desired by sport handlers, a big point loser in the AKC OB world, something I never want my dog to do.

The dogs I've trained and the dogs I've owned that have been trained before I even got them using the on lead sit at heel, stay, heir,  reel-in, finish method have never failed to quickly learn to come immediately when called, my current dog is so fast she has to skid in so she doesn't knock me over.

PS: I've never had to use a longer leash than 6 foot to train a solid recall. By the time we were working off lead the "hier" was well understood from earlier training with a 6 foot lead. Once the dog "gets it" the retrieve on flat and over the hurdle doesn't need to be taught on a long leash either.

 

I almost ALWAYS use a long line during training. The dog is used to it, doesn´t even recognize it any more,
" No pulling " on a long line sounds good, but it´s not always practical.
Almost every dog does have a time, when it already KNOWS the command " here " 100 %, but at one special day said dog decides to NOT listen to you, and at that point it´s good to be able to " yank " on the line, to correct immediately and firm.

Thanks very much, Nans,  I do appreciate that not everyone trains
the same way, and its no biggie for me to have someone say that
in their opinion, and by their methods, mine are wrong.  I just got
fed up with Kurt doing what I've come to regard as his usual snide
comments almost every time I've posted any comment on training
matters over the past couple of years.  Normally I ignore him;  but
today I 'bit'.  [He wants to be careful;  I could be just as rude to and
about him, if I wanted to sink to his level !]

Blitz, interesting.  I think probably in the UK there's more similarity
between  KC Ob, Trials, Sport and Police/Armed Services working
methods than seems the case in America.  There are bound to be
differences, but as much between people & Clubs / Areas, as between the
different disciplines.  The way it was originally put to me with long
line work was, as I said above, if you are teaching a Recall to a dog -
which is maybe that bit older  (yeah, who needs it with the little guys?),
say one going through that 'teenage' stage, or an untrained rescue
dog, - you want to rely on encouragement as much as possible, since
you are no longer dealing with the 'invisible elastic' that comes as
'part of' a small puppy .   Just as I was always taught that you DO NOT 
correct / punish a dog for coming back LATE;  you want them to keep
on coming back 100%, so you don't want them thinking "Oh, she's cross;
perhaps I don't want to come back at all, then !"  (please forgive the
anthropomorphism, can't think of a better way to put that).   And a dog
who has been yanked along on a line will sometimes be put off by use of such
a tool in learning Retrieves,  also some other stuff :  distraction avoidance,
stock chasing,  early stages of sendaways, and so on.
Couldn't agree more about the heelwork;  one reason I wanted to switch from
KC Ob. was that LeaningOn (crowding as you call it) has become more and
more an accepted, even looked-for, thing there;  whereas I'm old enough to
remember when it would LOSE you marks !  Not sure how much the IPO crowd
over here look for it;  partly 'cos I haven't managed to get into it much (and he's
a bit old now !) and partly as it seems, as I say, to vary where you are and who
you are watching.

Susie, there is a world of difference between using a quick yank and release on
a line, as a correction or to make the dog brake and turn, or pay more attention,
and the idea that you 'reel in' a dog like a fish, as Nans and Blitzen illustrated, by
hauling consistently on the line all the way back to where you are standing, and you
have not moved.  All too often this is how some people, especially (but not exclusively !)  
new people, trying to train on their own, etc, understand the use of long lines.  
I have no way of knowing whether  vomeisenhaus  sees it that way.
I simply hoped I could help stop someone reading Nans 2nd post and drawing that
conclusion;  or at least encourage them to research further exactly what was meant.

and I too was taught never to "be cross" on the come command even if the dog is slow as long as they "hier" no matter what;  praise and reward.    Thanks to all,  Nan