E Collar Survey - Page 2

Didn't actually lie in the end, I just wrote the truth, PLUS pointed
out the inadequacy of their format for international and non-
academic use.  The q'aire didn't blow up on me, so I carried
on !  Though like I said, not entirely sure it was 'logged' at the end.  
Also not sure everyone would be up for 'messing with their heads'
as much when faced with that form, to get through to the 'meat' of
the subject ...  When CathyD  posted the thred she said they were
open to the views of 'all';  I hope they now see they have made it
very off-putting to many.

You don't have to lie to make it through the survey; simply answer 'none' in the sections on certifications and whatnot.

Yes, just as Keith mentions, I do not have any of those "certifications" and made it through the survey in it's entirety.

My "ears were burning" I felt my screen name was uttered...  Keith is right though, you can answer "none" and "other" to move forward in the survey.

I looked at the survey too and it appears to me that they are really trying to get feedback from their own people whom hold the "CPDT" certification.  I would guess they just threw the others academic titles and certification in the survey to give them some additional data on current CPDT holder, whom also happen to have other certifications besides those issued by CCPDT.  There is no way to really know what their exact goal is in collecting the data, but I am strongly leaning toward the data being entirely focused on CPDT holders and not solely about e-collar training in the broad sense.  They ask for "all dog trainers" to participate but the way I read it they mean "CPDT dog trainers preferred".  If I were to guess, the results of the study will show a certain percentage of "CPDT trainers" whom "use or do not use e-collars" and/or that "CPDT trainers" in general "do or do not recommend that e-collars be used by anyone with less than 'blank' credentials under their belts".  Just a guess, BTW

As for the CPDT certification, it doesn't require any formal schooling to get, anyone here is qualified to take the exam.  Its an exam based certification and has a yearly CEU maintenance requirement, of which neither are free of charge.  Its basically a type of "money grab" with some mild advertising provided by CCPDT.  I actually think this certification as well as the IACP are very entry level and for the most part not necessary (just like a CGC).  However, some of the others credentials mentioned there, like the CAAB for example, require a PhD and 3 years of hands on, in the field animal behavior study under a PhD holder conducting animal research at an established research or academic institution.  The CAAB, for example, is the kind of thing a DVM or PHD working on livestock behavior for the USDA, would be eligible for. Certainly not something you get by mailing in a piece of paper in, take an exam and then sit in paid seminars every year.  Also most of the other listed certifications are Vet only, with clinical setting experience required:

http://www.apdt.com/join/certification/

It may be possible to see if CCPDT is for or against e-collar use, they are a 501c3, so their mission and funded agendas need to be public in many instances.  They have posted a white paper and it does appear that while they are not outright against e-collars they are definitely leaning in that direction:

http://www.ccpdt.org/phocadownload/governing-documents/Policies/Training%20and%20Behavior%20Practices%20Policy.pdf 


CCPDT is based in New York and their non-profit EIN is 75-2976325.  They don't seem to report much income, so their influence should be pretty minimal.  This fits in with my above statement that the survey is "CPDT dog trainers preferred", many non-profits do this because data about their members is needed when applying for certain types of non-profit eligible grants and funding.  Without the data they would not be eligible for the money or the lack of robust data would make their submittal noncompetitive against other organizations applying for the same money, with more more data on members and/or served segments.

This is one of those situation where I'd like to think my dual background gives me the ability to "wade through the smoke and mirrors", providing a more accurate guestimate of what academic types are really looking for but not outwardly stating to laymen.  Hope this helps, everyone, try not to kill me this time.

Well on page 1 question 4 says this
How many years have you practised as a PROFESSIONAL DOG TRAINER BEHAVIOR CONSULTANT
So i will not lie about it and there i can go no further, Reason it asks how many years in groups of years?
I have kept and trained Dogs for well over 60 years, but i am Not a Professional Trainer/Behavior Consultant in any way. i have taken no exams to say i have and i have no papers to say that i am. Plus there is no where to say NONE so i must tell a lie to continue if i want to finish the survey. As i said not many will complete this survey.. but it does not mean they are lesser trainers than the above? in fact as i said the best Dog trainers and animal trainers are without any form of Titles themselves, They are just naturals it is a gift
Steve1

steve1 it has an option for 0-2 years, you could check that box.  Also as posted above, look at their posted "white paper", they are definitely leaning against e-collar use:

http://www.ccpdt.org/phocadownload/governing-documents/Policies/Training%20and%20Behavior%20Practices%20Policy.pdf

Old time dog trainers need to post their experiences, so as to counter the anti e-collar types.  I want to continue to have choices, along with science based findings made available to the public.  Not necessarily opinion based surveys,like this showing percentages of yay's and nay's, with a little demographic data mixed in.

 

Steve1, I've had to design surveys like this for another field (information science) and often they are constrained in their question wording and possible choices by what they are trying to measure. So, for the question you are referring to, they are wanting an actual number. That's why they include a 0-2 option. From the way I read it, the 0-2 option does include people that are NOT professional trainers, but maybe I'm wrong. It would be more accurate to have another option "I am not a professional dog trainer", but they are wanting numbers.

Or one can stretch the definition of "professional", somewhat !!
I just put the long years I've been involved in training, and helping
people to train their own, dogs - and getting [some] money for 
some of it, but I would not in normal circumstances describe
myself as a professional, I don't run training as a business ...

To those who said you can just put 'none' under 'other' on the
front page, yes of course, but it at first does not look as though
you can get through because all boxes are obligatory fields,
and until you try it just using 'none' it is very off putting.  It clearly
put Steve right off, and was fixing to let me walk away too, until I
got bloody minded about it enough to have another go.

Momos, thanks for the info about what the wall of acronyms mean,
but it still isn't clearly relevant to overseas training and behavioural 
credentials and affiliations.

@Hundmutter thats one of the reasons why I put up the link to their policy on "expected behavior" from registered CPDT trainers.  The purpose of the survey seems to be to find out how many of their "certified trainers" are using e-collars and of those how many have graduate degree's and other certifications as well.  Down the road I expect them to use it as a "marketing push" and in the short term, as the basis of a larger "study to be funded" by some means which they are applying for now; showing through this study that "X percent of CPDT, get results without needing to use the e-collar" or possibly "X percent of non-CPDT trainers use e-collars".  They also don't ask about organizations or venues that the trainers participate in or belong to, which is relevant info, so my guess is that the study entirely focuses on people training the average pet owner how to deal with day to day stuff with dogs, for a fee. 

On the Demographic Information you have to answer the degrees you have, That is easy, and then areas of study. i cannot honestly answer that question. below if you put in 0-2 years which again in my case is false and press to carry on it will not go to the next page because the two answers were not given above
So if i have to tell lies two times on two pages to go on, that is wrong and false and proves nothing. if i tell lies to get to the info on e collars if there is one then i have told fibs to get to that postition, and that is not right so proves the Survey is not for the ordinary person no matter how good a dog trainer one may or may not be, who does not have the qualifications to back it up; and to my mind papers do not make a good dog trainer, as i said some of the best in the world who train dogs, are like me practical only but i do not of course put myself in there exalted company
Steve1