sending dogs to germany for titles - Page 2

what Abadonsdad said was, some people seem to think that people send dogs to Germany and spend thousands of dollars and come back not really trained,not Best not worst , and hell yeah i will share some videos from dogs ,i just think it was amazing how the point was missed - people seem to assume the worst of people ,and yes i've heard both sides dogs coming back with no titles . dogs coming from overseas , and winning Titles , and people complaining about that... if someone was telling a story about their vacation to Brazil , would you then start attcking them , asking them when where why how much , would you tell them they could have went to Iowa and saved their money ! that was the point if the people spend the money believe that they are providing the vary best they can ,for the dog their business so be it .. and until i can get videos up of my dogs  (cause they are pretty awsome) Pedigreedatabase.net German and American bred dogs , and no-worse none best .. just dogs.
and someone who does not think their dog is the most awsome ,is not really a dog parent .

How many stories have we heard lately of dogs sent to trainers here in the states where the end result is either a dog not trained or a missing dog.  All the following comments then tell the person that they would have known better if they would have just done some research.  Why is not sending a dog to Germany where they have more trainers and more clubs any different.  If you have contacts with people from Germany and have a real trust with whom you are dealing with, then maybe that is the better option for you.  Some people may not have the option to train their dogs themselves because of the distance to a club.  Or in the busy world we live in they may not have the luxury of having the time. (they may have very time demanding jobs.)  Are you going to fault them because they work hard and love GSDs?  And want not just the maximum training for their dogs but may also feel that they are cheating the dog if they don't allow them to be trained to do what they naturally want to?  My dogs are a very high priority in my life and if one has to suffer it isn't going to be them. 

Abadonsdad,

Since this is your post and you made statements contradictory to what many know to be true, AND you offered up proof which you are now unable to provide. You may be headed towards the clueless catagory. Chances are you did not form your opinion by yourself. Someone blew some smoke up,,, well, lets just say you believed it.

When you infer that German titles are better than a US title because the dogs are German, you obviously haven't been to a trial in the US. When you are unaware that many people do send their dogs to Germany and spend thousands just to say they have a titled dog. You are obviously unaware of the way some things are done. When steps are being implemented to correct deficiencies in the system. You almost have to acknowledge there is a problem within the system to correct.

There are good trainers and there are bad trainers - worldwide - doesn´t depend on the country.
You always need to do your homework about "your" trainer AND you should take a look at your dog BEFORE sending it over the ocean.
Sometimes owners do send dogs over the pond that are, friendly said, not more than pet quality, but the German trainer "has to" title it.
No fun for ALL parties involved...
In my club people use to train every day, ALL of the dogs are well cared of, American or German, and there are no "late night" trials...
They DO learn the basics, but within a couple of months it´s impossible to strengthen the learned behavior.
It´s good enough for a club trial routine, but mostly not more.
Afterwards these dogs go back to the States, to there proud owners, and these owners aren´t even able to pronounce the German commands...
Different handling, no commands, no serious handler...
THERE ARE late night trials, SV is fighting against these trials for a while now, but maybe it´s necessary to show you the German ( trainer )side of the medal, too.

Dog1 i never said German dogs ,  were better you did , please read the posts, and i  said some people think that people spend thousands of dollars ,to send dogs over please re-read , i was commenting on another post .you don't like it or think differently im sorry , but please do not take my words out of context, i have been to many trails , sorry if i offended ..i will just conclude by saying i love my dogs some born in america , some born in germany .. didn't mean to tick you off ..

Real simple. You put it out there, said you could back it up, you can't. Would love to hear some educated discussion on the topic as Susie posted. Please don't post things you claim to be true, say you can back them up and then don't. Some people may actually believe you. You probably owe some people an apology.

ok so argue with yourself in your own mind ,what you think you read , and when your done, let me know the outcome ,because you said german dogs were better i did not. and as for backing it up ,backing what up you wanna jump on a plane , come meet my dogs fine come-on out.

You can settle all this by linking a video of  your dog's performance as you offered to do in  your original post.

 when i offered to show this dog do bitework (sleeve optional ) , now ,would anyone take a bite on a dog without a sleeve ,really? and yes as soon as i figure out how to get videos from my old desktop to my new laptop , i will post videos ,, but how you even post pictures, where is the attachment button , i would love to at least post pictures of my dogs.
i have 3 , oh and right now two fosters ,Ali , Taylor ,They are rescues. we can't forget them.

I know an excellent WGSL breeder that has a great relationship with a well known kennel in Germany.  She will send dogs to them for training and titling and the dogs come back well trained.  Years ago I did some foundational work with several of her dogs to get them ready to be sent to Germany.  These dogs worked very well and came back trained and titled.  I'm sure there are some breeders that seek out the trainers that hold the "midnight trials" because their dogs while structurally correct lack the ability to work or be really trained.  I'm sure in the SL circles these "trainers" are well known by the SL people and it works both ways.   These "midnight trials" have also occurred at club trials in the US, let's not kid ourselves.  

I think it is inappropriate to say that every dog that goes to Germany to be trained comes back with a "fake title."  I think Mystere pointed it out correctly:

well-known breeders who send dogs for such titling on a regular basis, yet don't dare even enter the dog(s) in a trial for a Bh, because they know full-well that the dog was not really trained or titled.

I would put as much onus on the SL breeder that takes the short cut to send their dog to a "midnight trial" just to have a title to be able to breed and show an other wise marginal dog.  This is one of the issues that I have with SL breeders that do not work, trial or title their own dogs.  Watch the work at the Sieger Show and see how many embarrassing performances there are in the bite work.  The vast majority are mediocre at best and these breeders / brokers brag about their dog's performance.  I am always amazed at the handlers that can not even heel their dog to the blind or the number of dogs that barely engage.  This is not a problem with sending dogs to be trained in Germany, it is a problem with owners and handlers that do not properly prepare their dog for a National event.  But, they sure look pretty running around the show ring.  If your dog can't adequately do the work then stick with the AKC ring as so many have switched too.  It is not required there.

Some of the responsibility needs to be put on the owner that sends their dog to be titled fully expecting to simply pay for a positive entry in their score book.  Yes, I'm sure the SV recognizes a problem with the system when unscrupulous breeders are willing to pay for a title to be able to breed and show their pretty poodle with a red and black saddle.  It's about the money and the breed suffers for it.  I have tremendous respect for breeders that actually work, train, title and show their dogs and produce dogs with correct structure, temperament and working ability.