Thoughts on this line? - Page 1

A friend of mine is training dogs for police and protection.  One of the guys he is working with brought a four or five month old pup along that he said he would sell.  Father is Dante of Braveheart Oradinum and mom is Auburn Van Apex.  Would love to have a Mal for frisbee with my Border Collie, dock diving, jogging, perhaps agility and most of all an active family dog to blend with my kids, two other dogs and a few cats.  I've been told the line may be more suited for more "intense" activities than what we need and hope for.  I will say this little guy is very sweet and surprisingly laid back.   Any thoughts or experience with this line?    ps Tried to post a pic but it says file too big??  It's just a shot from my I-Phone.  Why won't it post?

Cute pup.   If you already cope with the activity needs you
list for your BC, adding another breed well up for such
pastimes would seem no big deal ?  If this Mal comes from
a bloodline in which every dog has been 'worked' seriously,
you might have the problem of him being a bit 'sharp' around
your kids if you were taking him on as an adult, but I can't
see that as being a problem with a youngster you raise your-
self, around your family from this age, as long as you do it
right.  If he seems to need even more demanding exercise as
he grows, you could take up Schutzhund or something similar
and equally taxing for him, too.  You sound like a pro-active
person !  [Sorry, no direct experience in Malis, or of his parents;
but have had similar questions directed at GSDs, and Collies,
and am answering in general terms].
 

If you are not familiar with mals, this may not want to be a breeding that you dive right into. I am sure he has excellent nerves, but he comes from a line that can challenge the handler and require an experienced hand.

"I will say this little guy is very sweet and surprisingly laid back."

Even high drive lines will sometimes produce a real laid back sweet pup. One of the nicest easygoing Mals I ever worked with came from parents that were nuts.

His owner may be selling him because he thinks he's a POS because he's low or medium drive and isn't snapping like a gator at everything that passes by.

He looks like a super pup. Laid back Mals are getting real hard to find especially since the new fad is to breed for Maligators.Suggest you pack up the family including the dogs and go spend some time with the pup. Or maybe you can bring him home for a day for a trial run. He's old enough so you can get a good idea of his real temperament. If he's what you want, grab him.
 

I have had very good results shaping fear sharp (to people) and object/territory aggressive puppies. If you are patient and are on the look out to prevent issues, you will have no problem. I raise my malinois inside the house as a pack and have had good results and they have similar Joe Farm lines - heavy Urosh and a little Roe. When he gets into something, keep a short thin leash or line on the pup and pull it while redirecting him with food or another toy. Watch for behaviors and prevent them when you can. If you see object possessiveness, fence running (territory aggression), dog aggression behaviors you don't like, then come back to the forum and we will help you. If he clicks his jaws a lot when he gets excited, then you can satisfy his oral urge by playing tug. Michael Ellis on www.Leerburg.com has a good dvd Playing Tug with your Dog and a really good mark/reward dvd Training Your Dog with Food (new edition) that I recommend to folks even though they have pet malinois. You can also find these dvds on ebay or rent them from www.bowwowflix.com. Focus on socializing this pup to YOUR environment, especially your kids running around the house - screaming and doing normal quick jerk weird kid movements. The cats you are going to have to really work on because they are prey waiting to chase and kill. You will have to keep the cats up and bring them out to stage some training scenarios until this pup is shaped to your liking. Don't forget exposing to strange dogs outside of the pack - he doesn't need to play with them, just ignore them.

You will need to watch him as he matures because he will probably get pretty protective of the kids and your property. Keep him from getting into trouble. For example, if you are home and you let strangers into the house, he may be fine. But if you are not there, he may get protective. He may let a maintenance or service person on the property if you let them on, but if you turn your back and let the guy go back and forth, moving quickly and with determination, the dog may then go for him. If you are not home and the kids let a strange kid into the house, he may get protective. (WARNING: NEVER LEAVE THE DOG ALONE WITH THE KIDS!!!!) So you may need to train yourself and the kids as far as procedures when you are away, the mal needs to go into his crate or kennel. That's what I see with these lines, both males and females for inside the house and outside in the yard.

If you are going to neuter him, wait until his bone growth plates have closed - minimum 18 months. If you neuter too young, the leg bones do not stop growing and they become disproportionate to the rest of the body. This sets the dog up for more sport related injuries.

Have fun and come back with questions if you need help.

I am not concerned about the posters ability to handle a drivey dog...after all she has border collies. I am just saying that the father's line are very serious dogs that require an experienced handler. This puppy may not be that way, but I just don't know if she is ready to have a mal puppy that may challenge her authority. There are so many more easy going mal lines for the first time mal owner. I  don't want to see a puppy get shipped around like his father has been. He will make someone a great dog...just answering the posters question about the lines. 

I know the dam's lines and it will take a lot of diligence to keep the dog out of trouble in a pet home, even if the dog has a laid back temperament. I just tried to describe the necessary training and planning that the poster would have to go through.
 

Hey, I appreciate any and all comments and advice. I have read, watched and spoken with any one/thing there is on this breed and was already a little concerned about what was coming! I took JonRob's suggestion of "test driving" Menace for a few days. I have had him the last two days and he is doing beautifully--But yes at the same time challenging. He is great with the kids and the other animals. I had to tell him no a few times on playing so rough with the smaller older dog and now he completely leaves the little guy alone. I slowly introduced him to the cats. They hissed at him and he completely ignores them. I was worried my 65 pound border collie might be too rough for the four month old much lighter mal. Ha! They love wrestling and rolling around. I cannot believe this guy's strength and agility and courage--and I had high expectations to begin with! The only problem is the Mal steals the tennis ball or Frisbee right out of the border Collie's mouth after he retrieves it. He learned to play fetch in about two minutes. That amazed me. Somebody mentioned territory aggression. The Australian Shepherd down the street that comes to play with my border collie every morning showed up at 6 AM. I was out with the dogs and the Mal freaked out and chased him off the property. It looked as though he was trying to protect my dogs and cats and kids. Can they become protectors and bond that quickly? He did get ready for the usual nipping, herding and mouthing while my girls played soccer in the yard. Unlike the border collie though, which took months, this guy seemed understand not to do it after a few stern corrections. He did pop the soccer ball with one bite though. I already have some nicks on my hands and arms from holding the stick and the rope he was tugging on but that is to be expected! He definitely wants to go and go and go. They say these guys are not couch potatoes but last night he curled up on my lap on the couch while the girls played with him and pet him. I put him out on the enclosed deck for a bit and he cried and cried. He definitely wants to be part of the family every second. The most stunning thing is how he never leaves my side while walking all around the property off leash. He is always right at my heels looking up wanting instruction. I've heard you cannot make mistakes and I do worry about that but so far he seems so easy to train and willing to learn. I am also concerned about the one or two days a week that I may not be able to take him with me or spend as much time with him. I can tell he will go through the roof without activity. Guess I'll have to figure that one out. Dictating this from my phone while I drive so it is a bit rambling. Will try to post some pics a little later. Again, I do appreciate and need any advice. Oh, any thoughts on how old he has to be before I can take him on a run? We have a soft rubber track that should be fairly easy on his legs.