Anyone that does scentwork that can offer advice? - Page 1

I should probably post this in training, but there never seems to be too much activity there, so I apologize and here goes...

I've recently begun training my pup for scentwork on marijuana. He has great ball drive and hunt drives, and I figured why not give him another job to do. I've talked to a lot of trainers, k9 handlers, read up about it, etc etc, but obviously theory and practice are much different. People have advised that I just use a trainer but I like learning about training and working with my own dogs as a bonding experience. I'm much more familiar with obedience and protection training, in my defense! :) With that said, I have a few questions...

I realize the whole point is to teach the dog to associate the scent of the drug with the ball or toy. So I've begun hiding a scented ball under a box, and when he sniffs for it, I reward him by flipping the ball out to him. Problem is he is wayyyy too crazy for the ball to really sniff. He sees the ball go under the box and just goes nuts pawing at it and basically trying to destroy the box. I've tried keeping him on leash, but that hasn't helped.

Can anyone lay it out for me with tricks or tips that have helped them in their training? Has anyone used a scented rag and just played tug with their dog as opposed to the box/ball idea?

Really, any sort of help would be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance :)

You should get Andrew Ramsey's intro DVD.  It will very thoroughly answer your questions and shows you how to do this.  It is marketing towards nosework sport but Andrew's background is training military dogs and his concepts are the same whether it's drugs or nosework odors.  I'm going though it right now because I'm starting nosework with my dog but hate how the NACSW trainers introduce odor and train.  I could very easily skip the nosework trial scents and use drugs instead, my training would be the same.

What about enhancing your dogs actual search technique?  Sure any dog can be taught to discriminate specific scents and indicate for a reward, but how thorough is your dog when they are looking for the scent?  There are many therories on how to train and practice this, but mental stamina during a search is important, as is a dogs ability to follow scent that could be blowing away or toward him/her, is it covered, buried, etc.  Training a dog to indicate on a specific scent can be done quickly, but getting the dog to think about the scenting game, while using effectivley his nose to get to the scent can take much, much longer.

I agree with the above.  When I add a new odor for my dog it only takes a day or two but it's training to stay focused while searching, be obedient to the odor not the owner (I can walk around, drop food on the ground, try to pull the dog away from the odor with the leash), and to indicate accurately (some trials require within half an inch) that are the reason we train every day.  The foundation is the searching and indicating behavior, not the odors themselves.  Depending on what method you use, you can train for months before you even introduce an odor.

I suggested the Andrew Ramsey DVD because it's easy to follow for a beginner and he also uses toys (tugs and balls).  The NACSW trainer I've worked with never uses toys and doesn't really know how to modify their methods for toy rewards.

Do you have access to actual Marijuana to use as a training aid or just the scented ball?   

The ball is the reward, not the object the dog should be searching for. You can't expect him to make that distinction when he's so very ball-driven!

Train him to indicate to the scent by having several empty boxes, then one with a scented rag (or some other object he's not going to go nuts over!) Teach him to down or paw at the scented box, THEN he gets the ball as a reward!

Anyone ever hear the story about a police dog who was searching a warehouse for drugs, and the goods in the warehouse included a shipment of tennis balls? The dog kept bringing the officer ball after ball!

FINALLY the officer noticed the balls seemed heavier than usual, so he cut one open.

It was full of hash oil!!  

SMART DOG!!   

Two of the three methods I've been shown do pair the scent with the reward but not for very long (like 1-2 sessions).  Key word there is "paired"; the scent container is with the reward but is not THE reward, so there might be scent with the food reward or ball reward on top but the reward itself never contains the scent.  The third method pairs scent with reward for a long time and I no longer use this method because I've heard it then takes the dogs *forever* to really proof the odor and learn an indication.

Slamdunc: I do have access to marijuana.

Everyone else: Thank you!

Also, I think most of the advice here is wayyyy ahead of where our training is at. I am having trouble teaching him to associate the reward with the ball because I don't think he is thinking about anything but how to get the ball (including destroying whatever is in his path)

Like I said, get the Andrew Ramsey DVD.  It addresses exactly what you are talking about.  He shows how to build the association.  He trains high drive ring Malinois so he addresses all these issues and demonstrates.  FWIW I've never met him and don't train with him so I'm not trying to drum up PR, just saying that it made the most sense for me.

Anyway, the dog should not be thinking how to get the ball.  Where is the ball?  If you do the AR method, first you develop a searching pattern/behavior (before introducing an odor).  Then when you start to build on the odor, there is no ball in sight.  The dog has to search and indicate the odor to get the ball (which is dropped/tossed by the helper person at/on the odor, the dog is not returning to the handler or self-rewarding, he is trained to think that the odor literally produces the ball).  We're not way ahead of you, at least I'm not.  I'm doing this exact step with my dog right now.  Actually he is already trained to do room searches and indicate the odor but I've backed up and am doing this method instead.

VKGSDs: Should have mentioned that too - I am definitely buying the Ramsey DVD. Thank you :)