Need help on which breed and what kennel to go to - Page 1

I have 3 years experience in Schutzhund, titled my female to Sch1. My mother currently owns her as her PPD since becoming single and living on her own and I am wanting to get into Mondio with a club here in Dallas, TX. I also volunteer at the SAR group and want to become a handler doing that as well. I have a family and this dog would be indoors when we are home and outdoors when we are not until maturity.

I have always wanted a Mal but I hear they are less forgiving of handler errors, now being a novice handler am I ready for a Mal or will I just end up screwing him up if I make a mistake during training? I know my GSD led me a lot of times on what to do and even when I made a mistake she could correct herself is a Mal like this as well? I do need a dog with a lot of drive but I also need them to have a clear head and not bite first ask questions later.

I know theres some sweeping generalizatinos and stereotypes about both breeds and I am well familiar with them but personal unbiased opinions would definitely help in my decision. I am looking to find one by the end of the month, maybe within a week or two.

These are the few I am looking at. The first one is an all black female GSD http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=730257 out of this litter. And a few videos of her. http://youtu.be/g5w3K6FpVR8 and http://youtu.be/BqqGIIwByCo

Also http://vomkiahaus.com/litters.html she has 2 females which seem to be good prospects.

The next is a Mal female from this litter http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/belgian_malinois/classifieds/139656.html

http://roodhausbelgians.weebly.com/litters.html

and http://www.mohawksmalinois.com/

So that is basically what I have found here they all have pups available although I haven't been in contact yet with Mohawk kennels to discuss my wants and needs. What do you guys about which breed and also about those pups, I know my budget is around $1000 for a pup + me driving no more than 12 hours each way to pick them up from Texas so if these aren't good choices maybe you can direct me to something better.

Appreciate the help.

Here is what i can tell you from personal experiance as a breeder and dog trainer. 
I breed German shepheds and I train full time dogs from police and dectection work to Schutzhund with my own dogs as well and personal protection and pet obed for other people.

Most of the time the GSD is more stable for Certain types of work such as Police, Schutzhund, Protection, SAR and even everyday life 
The Mal not so much more of a police,Schutzhund and Ring sport dog maybe protection if you want to live with a very high drive  dog in your home.

Mals tend to need more maininace work in training to keep them sharp ( So I have seen personaly)

I think more mals would do better in Ring than a Shepherd though there are always exceptions to the rule.

As far a I know You would not be able to do both SAR and Ring sport with the same dog as most SAR groups are very touch and go about a dog that has any bite work. I know this to be true in my state( KS ) you may want to look at yours before you make a decition on what is the best way to go.

I would then say the work decribed by you is demanding and you should make sure that the hips and elbows are clear on all parents and insure that the breeder has a good understanding of what you are looking for.
 

I wish you the best in your search 
malinda

Thanks for the reply I thought about how SAR groups might not want a protection trained dog in the club but they haven't ruled it out so far. They basically told me bring it in and they will evaluate its pedigree and do an assessment to see if it was suitable for SAR before I could start training with my dog.

As far as GSD in mondio I was concerned about that as well I know with the jumps and climbs a dog has to do in Ring sports would be MUCH more demanding on a dogs elbows and hips.

So basically I am stuck in ring sports with a dog and SAR without or get 2 dogs.. hmmm haha great idea maybe I can talk my wife into getting 2 dogs and doing SAR with her dog and I will stick with Mondio. Probably won't fly though :(

Can't go wrong with mohawkmals heard great things about him and his dogs are in my older mals,before I got a mal I had shepherds all my life had the same thinking about them... out of control...... not true my mals are great turned on in training, quite in the house .You need to talk to Mal breeders exspecially ones that do french ring .Until you own a Mal and live with one then you really don't know about them they are sharp as tacks and remember there training well. Do alot of looking at kennels ask lots of questions see the parents do your research.I take my mals and sheps on shore to shore trail rides all listen well even when other people, horses,dogs are around my mals are more attentive to me where my sheps watch more of whats happening around them.You also might want to talk to OT Vitosha Malinois( Ivan Balabanov) looks like his life is mals very informative web site pups might be out of your price range but you get what you pay for.

Almost all of my adult Mals are dual purpose patrol / SAR. They are very stable, and very solid in their work, but again it comes down to breeding and knowing what you are getting into. They live in the house with us, and I can seach for little kids to alzheimers patients, and catch bad guys the next day. As weberhaus stated many teams will not allow dual purpose dogs. Fortunately that isn't an issue with us. Mals are definitely less forgiving of mistakes, and there is a large range in the maturity times in different lines. I generally tell people before they make a decision to look at, touch, feel, play with as many litters as possible so they have an idea of what is out there.

On my RoodHaus litter the Sire was co-bred by Mohawk Malinois and Ot Vitosha Malinois. The Dam is that litter is from a mixture of working and show lines. The pups are all showing good drives at this age and are exploring everything with no hesitation.

Beth Rood

In my humble opinion, SAR is very much like Therapy Dog work when it comes to allowing dogs that are "trained to bite" in one of the sports (or even as police dogs) - some organizations have no problem with it, and for other organizations, it's an automatic disqualifier. It is absolutely possible for a dog to be able to do both. One girl I train with frequently (and also train with the SAR team she belongs to) has a female who does ringsport as well as SAR. She's a fantastic, balanced female and loves doing bitework and also excels at SAR. There's no reason why a well-bred dog with good temperament would not be able to do both. (For what it's worth, my retired police K-9 does Therapy Dog work now and she is wonderful at it.)

I will disagree with Malinda on saying that "most of the time" GSDs will be "more stable" for any of the sports.

Yes, there is a percentage of Malinois from sport-lines that have a very hairline trigger on aggression and that are not as stable in terms of nerve as you'd want for a dog working in SAR - and a lot of sport people seem to LIKE that type of dog. Personally, I don't. I think a good Malinois should be level-headed and stable, not overly aggressive. Finding that is certainly possible in the breed. I think my dog is fantastic, her temperament is beautiful and there's certainly nothing "unstable" about her.

At the same time, if we're going to accuse Maliois of being "unstable" for sports I think we also need to address that finding a good breeder is just as important if you're going to buy a German Shepherd because there, too, are breeders who don't produce stellar, stable temperaments and whose dogs are not stable enough to be seriously working in any of the dog sports. (Yet some of those dogs keep earning titles, too.)

Just a thought. I don't think we can say it's black/white that a Shepherd would be more suited for one thing and a Mal for another.

Chris