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by SchaeferhundSchH on 12 October 2011 - 15:10
In your experiences I would be interested to hear what differences you notice between the two lines. If you don't mind also adding in whether you purchased either from a responsible breeder who raised litters similarly to each other if you know.
I'm asking to find out if there really is that much of a difference between a quality working line and a quality show line.
I already have some opinions from experience but I want to hear others as well
by pinkbitesleeve on 12 October 2011 - 16:10
Quality-wise, I can only really speak on my showline dog, as I have met both of her parents and know her breeder well. I know the thought and compliment that went into the pairing. My working-line dog, while she has decent lines, I don't know as much about them, I have never met the breeders or the parents, though she is a very good and healthy dog whom I acquired when she was a little over two. She is now six years old.
But I can definitely see the differences in both, but I attribute these to individual dogs rather than lines. My showline is a much harder dog who does not take corrections personally. I think that even with a proper start in training (I'm not entirely sure she got that from her original home), my working-line would still be the softer of the two dogs. Both dogs grasp things very quickly and love to work, have lots of drive for whatever it is that we're doing. My showline, however seems to legitimately ENJOY our activities. My working-line seems a bit more automated at times, like she has the drive but operates regardless of whether she likes the activity or not. I know how bad it is to humanize our dogs, but when Discoe works, you can see a sparkle in her eyes and you can feel the energy that she puts into everything she does. You've seen it :D
Honestly, I think in a well-bred and well-trained working-line dog and the same in a showline, you might not notice much difference. As it's been said before: there are extremes on both sides, and a good breeder is going to recognize these things and breed dogs who compliment one another and lend to what the other lacks as well as improving what both dogs already possess.
But I can definitely see the differences in both, but I attribute these to individual dogs rather than lines. My showline is a much harder dog who does not take corrections personally. I think that even with a proper start in training (I'm not entirely sure she got that from her original home), my working-line would still be the softer of the two dogs. Both dogs grasp things very quickly and love to work, have lots of drive for whatever it is that we're doing. My showline, however seems to legitimately ENJOY our activities. My working-line seems a bit more automated at times, like she has the drive but operates regardless of whether she likes the activity or not. I know how bad it is to humanize our dogs, but when Discoe works, you can see a sparkle in her eyes and you can feel the energy that she puts into everything she does. You've seen it :D
Honestly, I think in a well-bred and well-trained working-line dog and the same in a showline, you might not notice much difference. As it's been said before: there are extremes on both sides, and a good breeder is going to recognize these things and breed dogs who compliment one another and lend to what the other lacks as well as improving what both dogs already possess.
by SchaeferhundSchH on 12 October 2011 - 16:10
PinkBiteSleeve thank you for that great post.
I have to agree with you that in a well-bred and well-trained dog regardless of the lines, there isn't much of a difference. I brought this up because in another thread here, a question was brought up asking if the showline breeders here raise their puppies like workinglines. I think that has a huge effect on the dogs while being raised. Developmental stages are huge for dogs and for putting a foundation on the animal for a good start.
I think part of the showline bashing comes from lack of experience in seeing a good showline. Not to discredit anyones knowledge, but I think there are a dime a dozen showlines who would duck and run from a loud noise. But I think that is more poor breeding, poor raising, and poor lines. When you hit the right lines, the dogs are raised to their advantage, and the breeder knows what they are doing in BOTH working and show lines, the differences are miniscule,
I have to agree with you that in a well-bred and well-trained dog regardless of the lines, there isn't much of a difference. I brought this up because in another thread here, a question was brought up asking if the showline breeders here raise their puppies like workinglines. I think that has a huge effect on the dogs while being raised. Developmental stages are huge for dogs and for putting a foundation on the animal for a good start.
I think part of the showline bashing comes from lack of experience in seeing a good showline. Not to discredit anyones knowledge, but I think there are a dime a dozen showlines who would duck and run from a loud noise. But I think that is more poor breeding, poor raising, and poor lines. When you hit the right lines, the dogs are raised to their advantage, and the breeder knows what they are doing in BOTH working and show lines, the differences are miniscule,
by Ibrahim on 12 October 2011 - 19:10
Firstly I hope I understood the question correctly.
I have both show and working GSDs, both males and females, most I got as puppies 2-4 months old and raised them under same conditions. All my dogs are untitled and without any real training. All I got from good breeders, none of my dogs is on the best edge of its bloodline. Here are some things I noticed from my own experience:
Between age 2-6 months
Show lines are leass active in play and running and childish acts.
Show get fatter and have excess weight and fat
Work has better food appetite
Work would play more time in tug and show more interest
Both work and show grow in size at approx. same pace
Between age 7-12 months
Show lines start picking up more and more in play and running and irresponsible acts
Show loose some of the excess fat
Show pick up in food appetite but remain less than the work
Show pick up on tug play more and more but still less than the work
Show go into unbeautiful proportions
Work pick more size in between age 6-8 months
Work start showing more alertness to their surroundings and bark intensely at outside animals.
Show pick up on being active, more alert, more vocal etc partly due to matching up with their work mates
Above age 12 months
Some show still grow in size especially head size, neck and muscles
Work at 12 months had gained almost all their size, bones, muscles etc.
Work show more protective instinct on family towards other dogs.
Work clearly more alert
Work bark more at outside stranger humans
Work can do more activity time without water drinking
Work more investigative
Work in general show more bond
In all age stages no dog knows or acts knowing its bloodline, some of you are laughing right now, I will explain this; no show line feels inferior to its work line mate and vise versa, when they interact together there is no work and show.
Last thing I want to say: I sometimes imagine that if they have to live in the outside with the stray dogs some of the work have good chances to survive but most of the show have no chance at all.
Ibrahim
I have both show and working GSDs, both males and females, most I got as puppies 2-4 months old and raised them under same conditions. All my dogs are untitled and without any real training. All I got from good breeders, none of my dogs is on the best edge of its bloodline. Here are some things I noticed from my own experience:
Between age 2-6 months
Show lines are leass active in play and running and childish acts.
Show get fatter and have excess weight and fat
Work has better food appetite
Work would play more time in tug and show more interest
Both work and show grow in size at approx. same pace
Between age 7-12 months
Show lines start picking up more and more in play and running and irresponsible acts
Show loose some of the excess fat
Show pick up in food appetite but remain less than the work
Show pick up on tug play more and more but still less than the work
Show go into unbeautiful proportions
Work pick more size in between age 6-8 months
Work start showing more alertness to their surroundings and bark intensely at outside animals.
Show pick up on being active, more alert, more vocal etc partly due to matching up with their work mates
Above age 12 months
Some show still grow in size especially head size, neck and muscles
Work at 12 months had gained almost all their size, bones, muscles etc.
Work show more protective instinct on family towards other dogs.
Work clearly more alert
Work bark more at outside stranger humans
Work can do more activity time without water drinking
Work more investigative
Work in general show more bond
In all age stages no dog knows or acts knowing its bloodline, some of you are laughing right now, I will explain this; no show line feels inferior to its work line mate and vise versa, when they interact together there is no work and show.
Last thing I want to say: I sometimes imagine that if they have to live in the outside with the stray dogs some of the work have good chances to survive but most of the show have no chance at all.
Ibrahim
by Ibrahim on 12 October 2011 - 20:10
If it interests you currently I am raising two females both are crosses between show and work, one is 10 months old and one is 7 months old.
This one which is 10 months already is better in all aspects than my work dogs, extremely alert, very actve and athletic, very investigative, wary of strangers, does not like much pitting even from us, very sweet and safe with children and I hope she will be like Gustav once described the good old GSD. She has very rich pigment and strong looks.
This one which is 10 months already is better in all aspects than my work dogs, extremely alert, very actve and athletic, very investigative, wary of strangers, does not like much pitting even from us, very sweet and safe with children and I hope she will be like Gustav once described the good old GSD. She has very rich pigment and strong looks.
by Ibrahim on 12 October 2011 - 20:10
This is the 7 months female, very rich in pigment, very energetic and active, very sweet character and I am watching to see if she will pick up on good traits like the other one. No show nor work is close to her speed and quick reaction, she likes to keep playing and she always starts the play with the other dogs, males or females and keeps teasing them.
Ibrahim
by SitasMom on 12 October 2011 - 20:10
It all depends on the sire and dam.
I've seen working line puppies that were lazy and fat and I've seen show line litters that had so much drive that they would chase anything and never tire.
by Ibrahim on 12 October 2011 - 20:10
That is the good thing when we exchange our personal experiences, they differ and therefore enrich the topic.
Ibrahim
Ibrahim
by SchaeferhundSchH on 12 October 2011 - 20:10
exactly, I am excpecting a wide variety of experiences. Keep sharing!
by Red Sable on 12 October 2011 - 20:10
Very interesting Ibrahim, thank you!
Just a quick note about conformation on your crosses Ibrahim, the first one looks weak in the pasterns, just curious where that came from, show or work parent?
and the second one, nice front, however, looks a little cowhocked, where did that come from, work or show parent?
If it is just the way the second one is standing, than disregard the question.
Which one of the two do you prefer?
Just a quick note about conformation on your crosses Ibrahim, the first one looks weak in the pasterns, just curious where that came from, show or work parent?
and the second one, nice front, however, looks a little cowhocked, where did that come from, work or show parent?
If it is just the way the second one is standing, than disregard the question.
Which one of the two do you prefer?
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