Kid/Male Agression in my male Mal

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by TheSpoiledK9 on 14 May 2011 - 05:05

Hi all,

I will try to give you as much information as possible so you can understand my situation better... and it is a lot!

Meet Ranger, a 2 yo male Mal. He is the biggest lover you could imagine! He follows you around the house and looks at you with his big doe eyes, and you can’t help but sit down and give him a good snuggling! When we play ball or train out back, he is a ‘robot’. He does whatever you ask, when you ask.

Now meet Sofie, a 2.5 yo female German shepherd. She rules the roost; at least she thinks she does. She doesn’t want any attention from mom and dad unless it involves them throwing a ball or giving food. She is always bullying Ranger and taking his rawhide, fighting him for apparently no reason. She lowers her body and stalks him around the house, and he tried to turn away from her and leave but she usually ends up cornering him and then they end up fighting.

It used to be that Sofie would fight him, they would get separated and that would be that. But in the past year, Ranger has started to slowly “grow a pair” (he’s neutered) and start defending himself. It started with a snap, and now he full on defends himself. This only enrages Sofie even more because “he had the nerve to stand up to me?!” So now instead of pulling one of the other, we have to pull them both off each other.

That’s inside the house. Now let’s go outside the house, to the bark, beach or wherever.

Sofie is a lover; she will greet other people and dogs with a wagging tail! She doesn’t play much, she prefers to chase balls, but occasionally you will see her join in a group run around the park when a new dog shows up. When children are in the park she will usually avoid them (mostly because she is focused on the tennis ball and if the child doesn’t have one, they are of no use to her), but when she interacts with them she is kinds and gentle, often showering them with kisses and she occasionally ‘talks’ to them with her wide range of vocals.

Ranger on the other hand turns into another dog when we are out of the house. He chases little dogs and usually ends up tramping them, leaving them squealing in terror (often mistaken by their owners as pain). The big dogs, which is usually who he targets first, he will challenge (I guess) but running towards them and ‘chest bumping’ them. He does this when other dogs are playing rough or when they are chasing the new dog at the park/beach.
He avoids people and barks or growls if they come to close to him or my husband and myself. If a dog is near us, he will run square into them, knocking them over, regardless if the dog was even looking at me or not.
He has snapped at a man before at the beach because he was carrying a fishing pole in his hand he has bitten a kids but twice now, once because he was playing ball with the kid and I’m not sure what happened, but my husband said the kid was teasing him and wouldn’t throw the ball so Ranger went up behind him and snapped at his but.

The other time was at the beach. We were playing ball, and a kid was lying in the sand and got up as Ranger was running by after having gone to fetch his ball. Ranger got startled and knocked the kid down via his chest bump. The kid, who was about 10-12, and a little on the heavier side, got back up so Ranger tried to knock him over again. When the kid didn’t fall, he bit the kids but. No blood was drawn either time, but I’m sure you can imagine both my horror and the child and his mother’s horror when a dog is biting her kid. The kid wasn’t scared, he has grown up with large rotties his whole life and is used to the rough play, and mom was understanding that the kid scared Ranger, and said everything was fine.

by TheSpoiledK9 on 14 May 2011 - 07:05

any suggestions??

by Duderino on 14 May 2011 - 07:05

Sounds to me like your first investment should be a leash. By your own admission (spoiledk9?) you spoil them and call them "lovers" yet you have missed signs of aggression that have been brewing for some time and now they're boiling. Someone will get hurt, quite possibly you or your family trying to break the two of them up. I'm thinking you should find some professional help and learn a little about working dogs. From the sound of things you guys are somewhat novices where the Malinois is concerned (gathered from the statement you made about giving them rawhides) and are kind of making excuses for their behaviors (the male "does whatever you ask, when you ask"). Again, the first thing I would invest in is a leash, they have way too much freedom in public.

Before you get defensive and feel insulted, ask yourself one question; If your dog were chasing a rabbit across the street and you had only 1 opportunity to call him back before he got hit by a car, could you call him back? Remember, you only get one chance.

by TheSpoiledK9 on 14 May 2011 - 08:05

i do not get insulted when it comes to advice, otherwise i would not have asked for it.

The Spoiled K9 is my pet photography bussiness name.

they have 6 ft.leashes, 15 ft. leashes, collars, e-collars. No they do not have stellar recall, id say 3 out of 5 times they will come back first time, which i know is not good, it should be everytime, and im certain if he were chasing a rabbit (or a mongoose since we are in hawaii), then there is NO way he would come back first time.

I have had trainers, but they dont see it. he went to a board and train for 2 weeks with 2 GSD's and 2 mals. I AM inexperienced with the breed, which is why i hired the trainer that was experienced.

im not making excuses, i am simply trying to illustrate how diffrent he is at home, and out in the wolrd.

now duderino, if you have any other advice than "buy a leash", i am all ears.

by Cykodog on 14 May 2011 - 15:05

Here's a thought - he is acting an out of control teenage ass because you have allowed this to happen. Stop treating him as a furkid and letting him get away with all this stuff, he is a dog, and if you set rules consistently and demand compliance, you will see a huge change for the better.

Ideally you should get a trainer to train you to handle the dog. Board and train will get you a dog who respects and listens to the board-and-trainer but slides back into the same status quo at home. You have to put in the work to get the results for yourself, and you need someone teaching you how to go about this.

BTW "durerino" was hinting that perhaps you should manage the dog... It is not literally about a leash and a recall, but control and obedience!

by EmmyBelle on 16 May 2011 - 13:05

I agree......These dogs will walk all over you if you let them. They will try anything and everything to push your buttons just to see how far you will let them go. Control and obedience defintely will be the key for your dog. It takes a lot of work and discipline on your part as well. I've start Schutzhund with mine and she's a totally different dog. She's soooo much better!! Good luck!

by ruaidhri on 16 May 2011 - 21:05

Put your dogs on a lead and take some responsability for them.

by allegretto on 18 June 2011 - 02:06

Properly training one of these dogs is a LOT of work. All the traits we love in them make them bold and at times aggressive. Much more intese a process than training a child, though gratefully once trained they are much less work than a child in terms of reenforcement

You have two issues now; home and away

at home eventually the male will probably assert himself. hopefully it won't come to injury, but You may get hurt pretty bad breaking up these two. you cannot stop nature and ultimately there will be a showdown between these two... just is

Outside is a HUGE risk. A poorly disciplined dog is not a good thing, a poorly trained BM is dangerous. These guys are tough as nails and athletes to boot, they can raise mayhem. Looks like your boy is getting to like the fact that he can intimidate

Spend the money on finding a Great Trainer and follow the instructions carefully and specifically. He needs reward (Love is best!) and negative reenforcement as well. A good trainer will know what level of reenforcement is appropriate. The payback on your investment in training will be "cheap", really.

Just as a child, the longer you neglect his upbringing the worse he will act.

One more thing; never tease or have your child tease him with a toy. This is by far the most common reason for owner bites. They instinctively go for the shortcut... always

by Dhaines on 25 July 2011 - 00:07

I understand your problem and it is not breed specific. I brought a GSD/Mal mix puppy home to a Shih Tzu and a Jack Russell and the bigger my puppy got the more aggressive my JR got. Which is odd because the JR is male and the puppy is female. My puppy just wanted to play and the JR wanted blood. Keep in mind my JR would launch himself at my puppies face and attack her like a pit bull in a ring. We ignored dominate behavior from him in the past because it never caused a problem. After reading numerous articles and watching several training DVD's i am starting over with him by establishing dominance. First, he only gets food, water, and exercise, no attention. Otherwise he stays in his kennel. Once he stopped trying to attack my puppy through the kennel and a glass door he was allowed in a confined area while the puppy was behind a dog gate and a glass door while he was still on a leash. If he tried to attacked Shiloh (puppy) through the gate or glass door, he went back to step one. Now I can have him in the same room with Shiloh for a couple minutes while on a leash and pinch collar. I am hoping to slowly increase the time with him only on a leash and by my side. Once they tolerating each other, they will be allowed together off leash with a muzzle on for very short periods and then increase as tolerated. I continue training with him now that he has "submitted" to me, but we keep it short and simple. I only work on what he absolutely knows so he gets a firm correction if he doesn't do it. This is a dog that would rather fake a sit than actually sit because that is how stubborn he is. We have been going through this re-training for about a month now and they are getting to the point where they are ignoring each other through the door and gate. Which is my goal! I want them to act as though the other one doesn't exist. It may take another month, it may take several, they may never be able to be together again, but it is my responsibility to make sure that a dog fight doesn't happen. Shiloh is about 50 pounds now and if she wanted to she could kill my 12 pound JR in a second. I know this is long but my advice to you is separate the dogs, establish dominance, and always have them on a leash in and out of the house. Having the leash on in the house is for training and so you can get to them without touching them if a fight happens. But my biggest word of caution is to never ever have your male dog around another child. You have to ask your self how you are going to live with yourself when he (and he will, that has been established) seriously injures a child. Then your beloved pet will be put to sleep. I have a wonderful resource for this information and if you IM me I will be happy to share it with you. Good luck to you and I know how hard this situation is.

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