Repeat Breeding

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by Smokin Joe on 07 November 2020 - 18:11

Logically, I can understand why a breeder would want to do a repeat breeding of a pairing that produced outstanding pups the first time. However, is there any statistical evidence that this is successful? Although anecdotal, I’d like to hear personal experiences of breeders. Thanks!

by ValK on 07 November 2020 - 23:11

not a breeder but based on observation of breeding practice i've become aware that repeat breeding tend to give predictability and consistency in producing next generation of dogs.
as for statistic, i doubt there is any. in my experience successful mating was considered if half pups from litter pass test and was taken back to a border kennel. in such case bitch would be mated two years after whelping but to different stud. two years was allocated for full recuperation.
if 3/4 or more pups from litter pass the test, bitch will get softer regime of treatment in the duty but after one year will be mated again to same male dog.

by duke1965 on 08 November 2020 - 02:11

personally did repeat breedings few times, the outcome was allways different from the first time, which is easy explainable if we look at how genetic reproduction works, and we look at the level of outcrossing in dogs today

look at working dog website that states the "ancester loss coefficent " which is in the high 90 % for most combinations, basically telling you that the chance of any of the pups being like mum or dad is very smalll

by Rik on 08 November 2020 - 08:11

never a working dog breeder, but the reasons one chose to do the original breeding are just as valid if one does a repeat.

it's easy to see if it didn't work, unexpected health/character issues, etc.

if the original breeding did work, there are still a few million combinations of genes that can make the repeat similar, maybe poorer or maybe better.

I don't think being a repeat has anything to do with anything.

by Smokin Joe on 08 November 2020 - 10:11

So, yes, no, maybe so. Sounds about right when dealing with genetics.

by duke1965 on 08 November 2020 - 10:11

rik, even the individual pups from first combination are very different from each other, so after which pup from first breeding should repeat litter pups take

by Rik on 08 November 2020 - 11:11

duke, not sure what you mean.

all I;m saying is that doing a repeat breeding maybe gives a clue what to expect, but the repeat is not good or bad simply because it is a repeat., which is what the OP asked.

few smart breeders would repeat a bad breeding, many might repeat a good breeding and have totally different results or similar results

there are too many combinations,

by duke1965 on 08 November 2020 - 11:11

rik, if the pups of first litter are not alike, what should repeat litter pups be looking like preferably

by Koots on 08 November 2020 - 11:11

The likelihood of a second breeding being anywhere similar to the first would depend a lot on the linebreeding of the mating, IMO. A strongly linebred litter would have greater possibility of producing consistent results (so far as any genetic grab-bag could) litter to litter. Not many GSD breeders use close linebreeding, which I consider to be 2nd, 3rd, even 4th generation if multiple times. A 5-5 is not a linebreeding, IMO.

Valk - that is interesting about the repeat breeding and ratio of pups in litter that are considered border kennel material.

by Rik on 08 November 2020 - 11:11

well since you are asking "preferably" and the first litter was considered good, then preferably the repeat would be good. that is what most would prefer.

not sure we aren't saying the same thing. but I am saying that being a repeat does not automatically mean it will be similar or same to the first litter. better or worse. it will be it's own combination of genes, same as first litter had different combinations, which is why there is variance.

can't really say it any clearer. if it was so simple to repeat the super dogs by preference, everyone would do it and it wouldn't even be a question.

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