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by melba on 12 February 2012 - 03:02
Long story short, I have a male GSD who is 18 months old that I am training in Schutzhund. He is doing very very well,
and will go very far as long as I keep bettering him and myself. My hubby is in LE and has been invited several times
to come training with his SO K9 unit, if he has a dog to work. The dog would do either, very well but I've been working
my rear end off and don't want to screw stuff up on my end. The question is, can the dog differentiate Schutzhund with
me and patrol with my husband or is it going to screw up my hard work?
Thank you
Melissa
and will go very far as long as I keep bettering him and myself. My hubby is in LE and has been invited several times
to come training with his SO K9 unit, if he has a dog to work. The dog would do either, very well but I've been working
my rear end off and don't want to screw stuff up on my end. The question is, can the dog differentiate Schutzhund with
me and patrol with my husband or is it going to screw up my hard work?
Thank you
Melissa
by Jyl on 12 February 2012 - 05:02
I beleive that Jim (slamdunc) does both SchH and K9 work with his dog.. I would talk to him..
by Army on 12 February 2012 - 12:02
Depends how you train and the intelligence of the dog should realise the difference between a sports field and an area of work. However a dog can do well in both fields but not master any.
by melba on 12 February 2012 - 14:02
I was hoping Jim would comment. Do you think it would be best to have him well started and really know what he's doing in tracking
and protection before as we're still in the beginning with food in every footstep and on a beginning sleeve. I know with detection the
dog would be absolutely fine, mainly because it's something we just don't do (not that I don't know how or anything like that). He's
aready showing a very high aptitude for sport work, but his protection so far is VERY real, switches from defense to prey and back
uber quick, very high and balanced in both areas. He's the only dog we have young enough to start patrol with, but he's also the greenest.
His Schutzhund career is more for me then anything, there are no papers so it's not like we're going to nationals or anything. He is
a VERY fun dog to work, challlenging in his own way (mainly corrections from a choke or pinch don't phase him but works super well
with mostly positive training) He lives for the "good dog" when he does a good job, and his ball of course.
I may title him and then let my husband work him. Get the one, maybe 2. He is still a novice handler, only ever handled one patrol dog
who was basically a turn key dog... anyone could take the lead and work him.
Melissa
and protection before as we're still in the beginning with food in every footstep and on a beginning sleeve. I know with detection the
dog would be absolutely fine, mainly because it's something we just don't do (not that I don't know how or anything like that). He's
aready showing a very high aptitude for sport work, but his protection so far is VERY real, switches from defense to prey and back
uber quick, very high and balanced in both areas. He's the only dog we have young enough to start patrol with, but he's also the greenest.
His Schutzhund career is more for me then anything, there are no papers so it's not like we're going to nationals or anything. He is
a VERY fun dog to work, challlenging in his own way (mainly corrections from a choke or pinch don't phase him but works super well
with mostly positive training) He lives for the "good dog" when he does a good job, and his ball of course.
I may title him and then let my husband work him. Get the one, maybe 2. He is still a novice handler, only ever handled one patrol dog
who was basically a turn key dog... anyone could take the lead and work him.
Melissa
by Q Man on 12 February 2012 - 14:02
In the beginning it's basically all the same type training...LEO's don't do the same Ob as you would for SchH...Tracking can be started the same way...and Protection at the beginning is basically all the same...
A lot of the LEO's K9's are/were SchH trained...They''re SchH1's or so....But usually after they're a SchH1 they stop the Sport work and begin more of the specialized work towards "Real Life" work...
So...like it was said above...it depends on each individual dog and how and who are doing the training...Also as it was said previously it depends on what you're looking for in a SchH dog...If you're looking to compete at a very high level then I don't think a dog can do both of these activities really well...Both doing SchH and doing Police work are a lot alike but have enough differences that they can't do both at a very high level...although they can do both...It just depends on what you're looking to do...
But in saying all of that...if you're goal is to do SchH...and say...train and compete at a club level (don't know you're level of training ability or experience) and for your husband to dabble in K9 work...then I don't see a problem and in fact can be beneficial...
~Bob~
A lot of the LEO's K9's are/were SchH trained...They''re SchH1's or so....But usually after they're a SchH1 they stop the Sport work and begin more of the specialized work towards "Real Life" work...
So...like it was said above...it depends on each individual dog and how and who are doing the training...Also as it was said previously it depends on what you're looking for in a SchH dog...If you're looking to compete at a very high level then I don't think a dog can do both of these activities really well...Both doing SchH and doing Police work are a lot alike but have enough differences that they can't do both at a very high level...although they can do both...It just depends on what you're looking to do...
But in saying all of that...if you're goal is to do SchH...and say...train and compete at a club level (don't know you're level of training ability or experience) and for your husband to dabble in K9 work...then I don't see a problem and in fact can be beneficial...
~Bob~
by Chaz Reinhold on 12 February 2012 - 16:02
Im sure Jim will respond. I'd also call Mike Diehl. One advantage you have, is the fact that you have two handlers. Dogs are smart and they adapt to what is asked of them.
by Mindhunt on 12 February 2012 - 23:02
I agree with Chaz, dogs are very smart, however you need to have a very intelligent dog to be able to differentiate between sport and work. The mindset of work and sport are different, with different end results and consequences. I am not sure why he would want to take his K9 to Schutzhund unless he does not have access to a K9 decoy or your decoy is well versed in both methods. My K9 trainer/decoy friend do not allow dogs to cross train, either the dog is work or sport, it is all about liability in their minds. Can you imagine an attorney saying a working K9 went to a sport trainer, what does the handler think, biting alleged perpetrators is a sport?
by melba on 13 February 2012 - 00:02
Little mix up, he doesn't have a K9 and hasn't since he donated his patrol dog dog when he went overseas in 2009. This is my
Schutzhund dog that I've been working since he was an itty bitty puppy. His SO K9 unit has invited him to come train with them,
if he has a dog. The thing is, all the dogs are mine. LOL I'm training 4 for Schutzhund and 2 are retired 7 year olds. The 4 I
am training for Sch. are 6 yrs, 4yrs, 3 yrs and 18 months. Out of all of them, if he took one it would be the 18 month old because
2 are little "girly" dogs and one is my baby.
It would be the reverse, the sport dog went to train with the big bad K9s. I just don't want to see my hard work flushed. His ob is
very very flashy, tracking is coming along for only having laid 6 or so tracks for him so far, and his protection, what little he has had,
is very very good. Bark is from the belly (these are not prey barks, ears back eyes piercing, glaring into decoys eyes) bits are very
hard and very full, an all around fun dog to work.
I would say I'm an intermediate handler, with much to learn still. My husband is a novice. He knows to stay away from the pointy end
and clean up after the other end. No, really he spent a long time working his bomb/patrol dog, taking him to all kinds of workshops and
classes. His training methods are just much different then mine, and this dog is NOT his former dog. He is not easy to manage, control,
get things through his thick head and honestly, I don't know these people or their training methods.
Schutzhund dog that I've been working since he was an itty bitty puppy. His SO K9 unit has invited him to come train with them,
if he has a dog. The thing is, all the dogs are mine. LOL I'm training 4 for Schutzhund and 2 are retired 7 year olds. The 4 I
am training for Sch. are 6 yrs, 4yrs, 3 yrs and 18 months. Out of all of them, if he took one it would be the 18 month old because
2 are little "girly" dogs and one is my baby.
It would be the reverse, the sport dog went to train with the big bad K9s. I just don't want to see my hard work flushed. His ob is
very very flashy, tracking is coming along for only having laid 6 or so tracks for him so far, and his protection, what little he has had,
is very very good. Bark is from the belly (these are not prey barks, ears back eyes piercing, glaring into decoys eyes) bits are very
hard and very full, an all around fun dog to work.
I would say I'm an intermediate handler, with much to learn still. My husband is a novice. He knows to stay away from the pointy end
and clean up after the other end. No, really he spent a long time working his bomb/patrol dog, taking him to all kinds of workshops and
classes. His training methods are just much different then mine, and this dog is NOT his former dog. He is not easy to manage, control,
get things through his thick head and honestly, I don't know these people or their training methods.
by melba on 13 February 2012 - 00:02
My goal for this dog is only club level Sch. He has no papers, so even if he is really really good, that is a no go.
Chaz, that's kind of along the lines of what I'm hoping. I'm not sure he's the brightest dog in the breed, or his stubborn
hard headedness makes it appear as such.
The dog loves to work. Plain and simple, he's a working fool.
I doubt my husband will be K9 anytime soon but it's been a dream of his for a long time and came very close before he
was deployed.
Maybe I'm not asking the right question. Maybe the question should be, will it take twice, or even 3Xs as long to learn the
routines (for lack of better word right now) in each if he is learning them both at the same time? Like people who learn
multiple languages at once, it takes longer then it would have if they were learning them seperately.
Chaz, that's kind of along the lines of what I'm hoping. I'm not sure he's the brightest dog in the breed, or his stubborn
hard headedness makes it appear as such.
The dog loves to work. Plain and simple, he's a working fool.
I doubt my husband will be K9 anytime soon but it's been a dream of his for a long time and came very close before he
was deployed.
Maybe I'm not asking the right question. Maybe the question should be, will it take twice, or even 3Xs as long to learn the
routines (for lack of better word right now) in each if he is learning them both at the same time? Like people who learn
multiple languages at once, it takes longer then it would have if they were learning them seperately.
by VKGSDs on 13 February 2012 - 00:02
I think whether there might be conflict really depends on how both are trained. If the SchH work is being trained in such a way that it's all about prey drive, biting and winning sleeves, and stuff like that then I can see where real patrol work might be a problem.
I'm not a cop and don't have K9s but I train my dogs in multiple types of protection at the same time and don't have any problems and neither type takes any longer to train b/c I'm doing the other, but I approach "protection work" in general from the same philosophy and same foundation whether my dogs are doing SchH or whether we are setting up more real scenarios with decoys and such. A good dog is a good dog and good training is good training. JMHO
I'm not a cop and don't have K9s but I train my dogs in multiple types of protection at the same time and don't have any problems and neither type takes any longer to train b/c I'm doing the other, but I approach "protection work" in general from the same philosophy and same foundation whether my dogs are doing SchH or whether we are setting up more real scenarios with decoys and such. A good dog is a good dog and good training is good training. JMHO
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