fast-normal breedings? - Page 1

OFA rates that a Fast-normal is a mild-dysplastic. Why are fast-normals being bred to fast-normals? How does this better the breed?

V   blah blah
HD- fast-normaal ed Normaal DNA gepruft
Was last year SG11 on the German Sieger Show
and
V    blah blah
HD fast normaal DNA

 FAST NORMAL is almost normal and is NOT dysplastic.

Other Hip Dysplasia Registries—An Approximation

Taken from: http://www.offa.org/hipgrade.html   -   They need to fix it.

My mistake,

Normal - Fast  = OFA borderline  = questionable.........

Borderline: there is no clear cut consensus between the radiologists to place the hip into a given category of normal or dysplastic.There is usually more incongruency present than what occurs in the minor amount found in a fair but there are no arthritic changes present that definitively diagnose the hip joint being dysplastic. There also may be a bony projection present on any of the areas of the hip anatomy illustrated above that can not accurately be assessed as being an abnormal arthritic change or as a normal anatomic variant for that individual dog. To increase the accuracy of a correct diagnosis, it is recommended to repeat the radiographs at a later date (usually 6 months). This allows the radiologist to compare the initial film with the most recent film over a given time period and assess for progressive arthritic changes that would be expected if the dog was truly dysplastic. Most dogs with this grade (over 50%) show no change in hip conformation over time and receive a normal hip rating; usually a fair hip phenotype.

http://offa.org/hipgrade.html

Just because OFA says it doesn't make it true.  I've had fast normals re-xrayed before purchase, they usually go about OFA good in appearence.  It's all subjective.

Veronica

I thought I'd add...I am not sure what is going on with that rating system you posted...perhaps they did not use enough dogs as their baseline when doing the comparison?  Even OFA is very subjective within their own system of evaluation...they will score a dog good one time and fair the next.  I've heard of even greater disparities in their evaluation system.   Same thing with all of them, I think.  I did hear that the SV is using a computer program to grade xrays now...is that true?  Veronica

 Fast normal means translated "almost normal" and receives the rating of a2. It is NOT dysplastic. One must understand that one cannot simply call one thing "normal" and anything and everything else abnormal (and in this case stretching that to mean dysplastic). There is a wide range of "normal" for most things. OFA is only one rating system, and all rating schemes focus on certain things, but also see certain things differently than other rating schemes.

Personally, I would not hesitate to buy or breed a dog with "fast normal" or "fair" hips. These are passing ratings.

Scoring radiographs for canine Hip Dysplasia - The big three organisations in the world

In the two tables found on the bottom of this 6 page document, you'll find one where Fast-Normal is equated to OFA Good/Fair (overlapping), and a table provided by OFA equating Fast-Normal to OFA Fair (only). Statistically, OFA historical data infers that breeding Fast-Normal to Fast-Normal would likely result in approximately 15-20% dysplastic offspring. (Which, offers no improvement to the breed average).

Now, here's a tricky question; Who's the better producer for hips? fairly similar? or do the ladies make these guys look good?

Ellute von der Mohnwiese ZW:82 (a1 / a normal hips)

46% progeny xrayed, 33% (of xrayed & non xrayed) have a1hips, 22% have a3 (or worse) hips

Rocky von den Zingelgärten ZW:86 (a2 / fast normal hips)

52% progeny xrayed, 38% (of xrayed & non xrayed) have a1 hips., 17% have a3 (or worse) hips

So, why is Rocky awarded a 4 point WORSE ZW rating, having produced 5% MORE a1 hips and 5% LESS a3 or worse hips than Ellute?

They both produced 9% a2 (fast-normal) progeny, and their number of total offspring is fairly similar.

Who were they mated to?

Would that have had any bearing on the outcome?

Normal - Fast  = OFA borderline  = questionable.........

See chart at bottom of page http://offa.org/hipgrade.html