Post-op Bleeds - Page 1

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Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 08 August 2022 - 11:08

Does anyone here have experience of, or knowledge about, post operative vaginal bleeding following a bitch spay ?

9 days after her ovariectomy Keera bled for c.10 hours; then again for about 5 or 6 hours five days later. Dog ok in every other respect, no v&d or lack of appetite etc, no sign of any pain, is back to her old boisterous self now, and so far no more blood. I'd never seen this before; nurse who checked her over & asked the Vet about her for me hadn't come across it before either. Thoughts ?


Sunsilver

by Sunsilver on 08 August 2022 - 13:08

This should not happen. I've watched vets spay females several times. Was the uterus removed, or just the ovaries?

When the vet does an ovariohysterectomy - ovaries AND uterus removed - which is what is normally done when a female is spayed, the uterus is clamped off at its very bottom, then cut and sutured. There is NO WAY anything should be getting into the vagina if that was done properly!

Most likely scenario is the vet didn't tie off/cauterize one of the blood vessels in the uterus well enough. Even then, the blood would most likely stay inside the abdominal cavity, and not leak out through the vagina.

I'd say the vet botched the surgery pretty badly. You are fortunate the bleeding was minor, and stopped on its own.

Bleeding from the stump of the uterus is the biggest risk after a spay. After the vet has cut and sutured the uterus, he/she will often put a gauze pad under the stump, so they can see if it starts to bleed. They'll leave it there while they remove the ovaries, just to be on the safe side.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 09 August 2022 - 06:08

Not a hysterectomy Sunny, just the ovaries. Apparently they are more likely to do this now, as its less intrusive. I was told that was what they were doing, not asked if that was what I wanted - and as from what I read over recent years I had no strong objections, no preference either way, I let that lie.
Its several years since I had a spay done, and then the bitches were kennel dogs. Much more practised with castrations !

She was fine after the op. Took a little longer coming round from the drugs but I know that can vary.
No sign of anything amiss (she was really good about leaving the wound alone, etc) until the day before her 2nd and final check-up; then I spotted the first bleed. Fresh spotting, not heavy.
It had completely ceased by the appointment next morning.

So the advice was to take her away & watch carefully for any signs she was unwell. Come back (over the weekend as an emergency) if necessary.
Nothing else happened until the following Wednesday, when she bled again. Started overnite, stopped by the afternoon, and again only light bleeding (though it looked to me a little darker, not so fresh, that time).

I had been googling of course; seems to me this was either a failure to tie off something properly, as you say; or a nick, or an internal tear in the work done, maybe while lifting her into the car, & if so maybe not the vet's fault ? - but that would surely have not waited 9 days to show its self ? - or maybe some hormonal residual effect, maybe on the cells lining the vagina ? It seems at this point unlikely to be Ovarian Tissue Retension, that's more likely to show itself further along the track when her next season would have been due ?

Advice when I phoned due to the 2nd bleed was the same, as she's so bright & well in herself; but they said if I got any more bleeding I should take her in and they would ultrasound to see if they could spot any blood pooling anywhere inside her.

I'm hoping / expecting this is done with; but wanted to pick experienced owners brains in case I miss anything.


Sunsilver

by Sunsilver on 09 August 2022 - 13:08

Okay, that surgery is not at all common on the other side of the pond! I agree, with the uterus left intact, it certainly could have been related to hormonal changes, or possible minor post-op bleeding.

Glad it wasn't serious! Star had some major bleeding after her spay, and was in a great deal of pain. The vet had to open her up again and fix it. :( Also know of someone who's female bled to death after the same vet did an ovariohysterectomy on her due to pyometra. It is NOT minor surgery!!

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 09 August 2022 - 18:08

Ouch ! Unfortunate ... poor pups !   [Same vet for both, you say ?  OOOooooh ...]
 

 

Nah, I have heard if it being done in a N American context, but I don't know that 'ovaries only' is widespread anywhere yet, I expect this will change.

As far as I can tell from what's online, even though the uterus remains, there is a very much reduced chance of pyo.


8lu3d09

by 8lu3d09 on 09 August 2022 - 20:08

I was only speaking to a vet the other week about laparoscopy spaying. I asked her if they remove the uterus as well as the ovaries. She said some do, and that would require a third small incision but she said that without the ovaries, the uterus will eventually shrivel up as there will be no hormones produced by the lack of ovaries.

Sunsilver

by Sunsilver on 09 August 2022 - 21:08

Ouch ! Unfortunate ... poor pups !   [Same vet for both, you say ?  OOOooooh ...]

Needless to say, i switched vets after that! He wasn't at all convinced he needed to open her up again, but it was late Saturday night, she'd been in so much pain all day that she wouldn't even come out of her crate, and I knew my chances of finding a vet to  help her on Sunday were very poor, and it would be VERY expensive! 

A friend who's a nurse told me if the vet doesn't use an normal saline IV during surgery, the dog's blood pressure drops, and the vet thinks the bleeding has stopped. However, once the dog recovers from the anesthetic, and the BP goes back up, they begin to bleed internally. All he did to stop the bleeding was bind her abdomen really tightly with bandages. Over the course of the day, they started to slip, so I decided to rewrap them. When I took them off, a large amount of blood just came POURING out of the incision!!  

When I checked her gums, and saw they were looking a bit pale, that was the clincher. I also called up her breeder, who told me with all the dozens of dogs both he and his wife had had spayed over the years, they had NEVER seen anything like this happen before, and the vet had better FIX it!

When I found a new vet, and told him what had happened, he said, "I've heard of binding the belly to help stop the internal bleeding, but I've never had the guts to try it."

It was definitely one of the worst days of my life as a dog owner, but I know I did the right thing by insisting he open her up again. By the next day, she had recovered enough that she wanted to play!


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 10 August 2022 - 12:08

Must have been really scary when blood poured out ! I should think you did change from that vet, I would have too. There did not seem to be any paling of gums & so on in Keera's case, and nothing that could be regarded as a major blood loss.

 

bluedog thank you for that information, seems reasonable the uterus will atrophy given its no longer functional without ovaries / egg production, but that had not occurred to me. Any idea how long the shrinkage takes ?


by GSCat on 11 August 2022 - 04:08

If there's some kind of a hormone imbalance that was being held in check by the ovaries, then the hormone imbalance could cause bleeding via any number of mechanism, depending on which hormone(s) affected. Could be cysts, tumors, etc., not necessarily cancerous, that can cause bleeding.

Hope the Veterinarian (or Veterinary Specialist) is able to figure it out and fix it.

And that it doesn't cost too much (although the specialists are always very expensive)

 


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 11 August 2022 - 15:08

Interesting, GSCat, TY. Not sure how much to pursue the issue if she has no more episodes of bleeding.





 


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