French Ring? - Page 1

I was just wondering who here does French Ring.  

I noticed that the sport seems to be ruled by Mals with GSDs and other breeds sprinkled in between. (I intend on participating with a GSD whenever I get one in the future). 

I don't want to keep bugging my breeder if I'm not going to be getting my GSD anytime soon, considering she's busy with current puppy buyers, but since she does PSA and most of her dogs have a ZVV1 title (that's like SchH in Czech Republic, right?), I imagine she'd be able to pick out a puppy for me that's suitable for the sport. She already told me she would have absolutely zero problem picking out a SchH and flyball prospect. (And yes, I've met her dogs - loved them all!)

There's three French Ring clubs near me - I know that two of them are less than an hour away (not sure about the third one) - and a member of my flyball team is active in the sport. I'll probably bop around the clubs if they'll let me and see how it all works and which one I like if I decide to pursue it in the future.

I know that it is far more demanding in a lot of ways than SchH. Has anyone that's active in SchH (or has been in the past) currently active in French Ring? What are the primary differences to you? Pros and cons to each? Which do you prefer? 
Would it be difficult for a dog to start with SchH and transition to French Ring? Or would it be best to start with French Ring so they don't develop what would possibly considered to be 'bad habits' from SchH?

Any pointers you could give me will be appreciated. 

from ipo to french ring is a hard transittion, he won't always have the possibillity to get an armgrip so my advice is start in french ring a leave the ipo/schh part away

I don't do French, but Mondio so similar.  Once you get past rag work, I'd go with leg sleeves and work on FR targeting first, you can always bring them up to a sleeve.  I prefer IPO simply because there are far more opportunities to trial and train around me.  I like them all really mostly because i like spending time with my dogs and training, doesn't matter what.  I like the simplicity of IPO, I can tell a lot about a dog with a sleeve and stick.  I think a lot of the stuff in Mondio at least is fluff :)  definitely a challenge to train for and keeps pushing handlers and dogs, but to me, I can tell the character of the dog without all the frills.  But some people find IPO to be incredibly boring so they like more challenges.  Either way, train for what brings you enjoyment.

You definitely want to pick one and focus on that.  There are things that dont' always crossover very well.  I'm not really up on all the specifics of Ring sports, Mondio is relatively "new" to me.  For example, I took a dog I wasn't competing with in IPO and started doing Ring exercises.  The OB was not a problem, jumps, walls, retrieves etc.  I did have to teach her to hold all sorts of objects rather than a DB all the time, but since she already knew "hold" and the rest of the retrieve it didn't take long.  We train around extra "fluff" all the time so all the enviro distractions weren't anything new either.  

But she was started with the HB imprinted very well like a good IPO dog should have.  After a few years of this trying to transition targeting to the legs took a bit.  when we'd try and do a drag in to target legs, she'd think the back pressure meant bark and she'd bark her way into the decoy, staring up at his face the entire time and look up to bite.  It took a while to get her to just pull and go in and get it.  any back pressure to her meant bark.  IT wasn't something we couldn't work past, but it was one issue we had to work thru.

By the same token, some dogs i work in ring we want on legs only though they can bite anywhere.  Some dogs when they learn to bite up, always look to bite up.  That might happen with them naturally anyway, but it seemed to jump out after we did some sleeve work with one dog in particular.  Did it make a difference?  I don't know, I think most dogs with good training, it won't be much of an issue, but there is carry over between training and sports and it isn't always beneficial.  Pick on and concentrate on it.

there is a guy in texas breeding gsd's specifically for FR, kennel is dull turret (spelling?). he is a nice guy. i would guess the 3m wall would cause problems for many gsd's.

VK,


what 3 meter wall?????????
its a 3 meter long jump.


FR3 requirments:
High Jump: dog jumps a hurdle on command, then does a return jump on command and comes to a heel position by the handler, minimum hurdle height 0.9m for 8 pts (1m = 39.37in)
Long Jump: dog jumps a pvc/metal "key" long jump on the ground, minimum length 3m
Palisade: dog jumps and climbs over a wooden wall, minimum height 1.7m, then does a return jump and returns to handler

 

my gsd's do 2.2 meter pallisade with little training. We started at about 1.7 and moved up from there.  1.7 should be little trouble with a little training.  if I haven't done it in months 2.2 or.3 gets a bit tough for them, they lose their technique some, but if i'm keeping them in shape and doing it every week or two, it's not a problem either.

oh, must be mondio i was thinking? i thought there was a big wall in FR, seems that way from the clips i seen.

1.7m?? pfft, my dog can do that now.

my bad, apologies for the incorrect info.

good call sam.

mondio 3 for max points:

long jump 4m
palisade 2.3m
hurdle 1.3m

 

French Ring places high demand on agility, speed, and mental endurance (routines for ring 3 is very very long indeed).  You need a very very high prey dog where training is done with little defence........ahhhhhhhhhhhh like a malinois.  You can for the most part imprint most of the routines yourself with your own dog.  For example, I put on the suit for my own dog when teaching him to target,....etc.

IPO is a precision sport that has 3 phases.  You need a much more balanced dog where power (with aggression) is given more points by high level judges.  Balance.....ahhhh german shepherd.
IPO is impossible to do on your own.  You need a team, as Bart Bellon stated.  IPO is a biggest stage in the world.  If you want to compete, IPO has way more avenues.

French ring (leg bites imprinted) to ipo is easier than going IPO to ring.  

You have a shepherd.  Go IPO.  A shepherd trained primarily in prey is a lack luster dog, indeed.  to me, this is a more complete dog.........but i am biased.  LOL.

You want to do ring?  Get a malinois and enjoy!  

A mal is half the price anyways and easier to train.

And I would not cross over between the two sports.  It is SO different that the results will be mediocre.  If you want to cross over, I would do PSA when your dog is finished competing and have fun.  PSA is pretty fun. 

Conclusion - crossing over would probably be a bad idea. Haha.

But to the last poster - I won't pick a sport and get a dog JUST to do that sport. I'll get a dog (a GSD in this case) and pick a sport. If she's suitable for FR, awesome - I'll do it. If not, I'll go with IPO.

A lot of people in flyball get or breed dogs specifically for the sport (many of which are mixes) and a lot turn out to be let downs. I don't want to be dead set on doing FR, trade my lifelong dream of getting a GSD for a Mal so I can do it, and it turn out to be a letdown.

I'm not DEAD SET on FR, but I am very interested in it. There's a club very open to newbies nearby, so that's good. A lot of the IPO/SchH clubs seem anti-newbie around here...