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by samael28 on 14 August 2013 - 17:08
Over the years I have seen many different approaches to imprinting and training for detection work.
So I am curious to peoples methods and especially interested in different peoples approaches to imprinting/training multiple scents.
So I am curious to peoples methods and especially interested in different peoples approaches to imprinting/training multiple scents.
by Hired Dog on 14 August 2013 - 21:08
Samael..this is an open forum and because of that, I am not willing to discuss anything in depth, but, I will tell you that years a go, we used tennis balls with the target odor stuffed in a towel in the ball to imprint. This was 30 plus years a go and we even trained mold detection dogs by accident and were scratching our heads when dogs detected it. Those who have been doing this long enough may know what I am talking about.
Today I use what I call a "cocktail" and boxes to train. Its faster and the final alert more predictable.
That is all I am willing to say in this forum about detection work, but, its a great question.
Today I use what I call a "cocktail" and boxes to train. Its faster and the final alert more predictable.
That is all I am willing to say in this forum about detection work, but, its a great question.
by vk4gsd on 14 August 2013 - 21:08
i thought 30 years ago they just got the dog strung out on smack and it just went looking for some??
jk
jk
by Pirates Lair on 14 August 2013 - 22:08
As Hired Dog said, some use "cocktails" (pot,coke,meth etc) all placed at the same time, others (like me) will start with one odor at a time. Once the dog has that odor a new one is introduced alongside it for a period of time and then the first odor is removed and so on and so on.
In theory, it isn't rocket science, but actually doing it and learning to watch the dog takes time and experience.
Boxes are generally the first avenue of training, then you move on to vehicles, suitcases, lockers etc.
The biggest problem is Handler error- guiding your dog to the find, not understanding how a scent cone works, how heat, rain and wind can effect the search, being able to articulate in court/reports, how and why your dog located the odor. Failing to keep accurate training logs, failing to use negative odors in training, not understanding how residual odors can linger, etc.
And, sometimes the dog will mess with you by giving a false alert in order to get it's reward, It does happen.
In my opinion, until you have actually worked a Detection dog, any type of detection dog - in real life (not training) and, actually found the substance the dog was trained to find your not a qualified Detection Handler.
Until you actually find the real thing, in a real situation you will always have doubt about yourself and your dog.
Once you have made your first real bust/find/hit - the rest is all downhill.
Kim
In theory, it isn't rocket science, but actually doing it and learning to watch the dog takes time and experience.
Boxes are generally the first avenue of training, then you move on to vehicles, suitcases, lockers etc.
The biggest problem is Handler error- guiding your dog to the find, not understanding how a scent cone works, how heat, rain and wind can effect the search, being able to articulate in court/reports, how and why your dog located the odor. Failing to keep accurate training logs, failing to use negative odors in training, not understanding how residual odors can linger, etc.
And, sometimes the dog will mess with you by giving a false alert in order to get it's reward, It does happen.
In my opinion, until you have actually worked a Detection dog, any type of detection dog - in real life (not training) and, actually found the substance the dog was trained to find your not a qualified Detection Handler.
Until you actually find the real thing, in a real situation you will always have doubt about yourself and your dog.
Once you have made your first real bust/find/hit - the rest is all downhill.
Kim
by Slamdunc on 14 August 2013 - 22:08
We do a similar thing as Hired Dog and Pirates lair. We imprint the dogs on several odors to start. When the dog learns the several odors we then split the odors. We don't use the boxes, but that is an excellent technique. There are many ways to teach the dog it's trained response, the boxes are a very good way. When teaching detection work the process is pretty much the same, only the target odors and final responses are different.
Kim is spot on in his explanation
Kim is spot on in his explanation
by Hired Dog on 15 August 2013 - 08:08
Now my question to you Kim and Jim, keeping in mind about it being an open forum, I will understand your reluctance to get into this, but, real stuff or some of the new pseudo that is available out there now when doing odor association?
by clee27 on 15 August 2013 - 09:08
Speaking of pseudo stuff- I saw a dog who was first started on real stuff, (teeth with pulp, blood, etc.), get introduced to pseudo. Once the dog was introduced to it, he would rarely ever alert to the real stuff. Why would that be? There were other dogs that were introduced to both and never appeared to have a problem with either, unless they were occasionally having a "bad" day in general
by Slamdunc on 15 August 2013 - 09:08
For narcotics we never use pseudo. We have access to the "real stuff" and I carry my own training aids with me. For court purposes we only train on the real thing and it is analyzed by our State Lab or issued by the DEA. We really have no need for pseudo. For the EDD's I can see some advantages to using pseudo. It is safer to transport, avoids a lot of the regulations or SOP's when transporting explosives. I have seen dogs trained on pseudo, especially the EDD's the results seem fine but then the dog's must be certified and trained on the actual odors. One advantage of the pseudo is that relatively small quantities can replicate huge quantities of the target odor. This can be helpful in "threshold" training. Again, we don't use any pseudo but I know some vendors with large Military contracts that do.
by Slamdunc on 15 August 2013 - 10:08
Clee,
There are a lot of reasons that a dog could have problems in detection work. It could be the amount the dog was exposed too in prior trainings and the "threshold" level the dog was accustomed too. It sounds like a training issue.
There are a lot of reasons that a dog could have problems in detection work. It could be the amount the dog was exposed too in prior trainings and the "threshold" level the dog was accustomed too. It sounds like a training issue.
by Pirates Lair on 15 August 2013 - 11:08
I agree with Slam on the use of "real odor" with narcotics, I have never worked with explosives but my understanding
from other handlers who have, is that real odor (gunpowder, blasting caps, etc.) is preferred.
While pseudo is safer to handle and transport, I find that it's use is limited to those
not legally allowed to be in possession of the real odors.
Pseudo also has a higher street value than the real thing, LOL
Kim
from other handlers who have, is that real odor (gunpowder, blasting caps, etc.) is preferred.
While pseudo is safer to handle and transport, I find that it's use is limited to those
not legally allowed to be in possession of the real odors.
Pseudo also has a higher street value than the real thing, LOL
Kim
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