Bite box training - Page 1

It's been a while since this has been covered here so I thought I'd throw it out for discussion.

If you've convinced yourself that table training is always bad, you may want to avoid this discussion.  Can they be and are they abused?  Absolutely and, as we saw with a dog that came to us early this year, by some who are renowned advocates of this type of training and with some pretty tragic results.  Used correctly, however, they can be a very valuable tool in our dog training arsenal.  The bite box is a modified version of a table that provides a controlled environment in which to work your dog.

Jagger is a dog who has never been fond of outing once he's latched onto something.  As a pup, we all stood around smiling and agreed that it was a good problem to have.  We still do, but...  As he matures and his training progresses, it is becoming increasingly difficult to work him if he refuses to let go of the sleeve and I have unwittingly introduced conflict in my attempts at "encouraging" him to do so.  I should add that he is an extremely hard dog who will take a correction that would send most dogs running off of the field looking for their mommies like it's nothing.  Probably a good thing for me since he's very tolerant of my many mistakes.

Anyway...the conflict I've introduced has made it nearly impossible for me to cradle him on the ground.  He is always anticipating the out and has taken to thrashing with the sleeve.  This is where the beauty of the box comes in because it limits his movement and gives us the opportunity to teach him that, yes, it's ok to calmly hold the sleeve and that nothing bad is going to happen while he does so.

Sorry about the quality of this video...it was day one of using the box with him.  I wish I had a video of this past weekend so I could show everyone what a difference a couple of weeks has made.  We'll be out of town at a seminar and training in the Chicago area this weekend but I'll try to get a better video to show his progress when we get back.  We saw a steady progression of dogs go through the box this weekend and not one of them fits the description commonly ascribed to working dogs on tables of having no options other than to engage the helper.  Rather, I saw a bunch of happy, confident dogs completely forward with their tails wagging the entire time.   It's really pretty amazing...great tool.

I've never had  problem with these things used like you're using them.  It's like using a fence when imprinting heeling.  It limits unwanted behaviors without anything other than providing a barrier.  When dogs can't be wrong, they often don't learn any other way to do it, but the correct way.  Which is kind of the point :)

 

Zdog,
What a great statement! One every trainer should learn and understand, especially for young dogs!

"When dogs can't be wrong, they often don't learn any other way to do it, but the correct way.  Which is kind of the point :)"

Thanks, I have have fleeting moments of enlightenment followed by long periods of dipshittery..... if that is a word

LOL!  Works for me!
 

Zdog I preach that to my students all the time, limit opportunity for unwanted behaviors....less need for correction....dog learn quickly and with little conflict.

If dogs are never allowed to make mistakes they also never learn to recover from mistakes.

we'll make plenty enough to learn to deal with that and there's always a time and place for that in training.  I don't think imprinting proper behavior is that place.

The table is very effective for dogs with handler conflict.  I use it often when I want to take the handler out of the equation and the progression is usually very quick once the handler conflict is removed.  I find one of it's many benefits is working with handlers that have made mistakes in foundation training, created conflict in the dog, can't handle the dog or need to to be coached on how to properly train and work their dog.  Taking the handler out of the equation is sometimes the best thing for the dog.  That is where the third party and decoy come in and the handler is merely a cheerleader, guided by the trainer and told when to praise his dog.  

No dog or person Makes No mistakes in learning, smh, but many people and dogs spend an inordinate amount of time correcting and fixing mistakes. I think people who train dogs understand the difference.