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by BroncoK on 08 February 2012 - 05:02
Okay all, I need advice. I have a female who is generally really good when it comes to dinner time. She obeys her down stay command and leaves us well away while we are eating as a family, but the moment we get up to clear the dishes she jumps up to grab whatever she can OFF the table.
I really appreciate her eating the crumbs from the FLOOR, less clean up for me, but I just can't seem to figure out why I can't get her to stay away from the top of the table and I need help. I'm going CRAZY! She is almost one, so I can see why when we all get up, she thinks it's time to get up too, but regardless of what I do, I want to know and do something that I can just leave the table whenever to attend to whatever without her stealing.
Thanks guys!
I really appreciate her eating the crumbs from the FLOOR, less clean up for me, but I just can't seem to figure out why I can't get her to stay away from the top of the table and I need help. I'm going CRAZY! She is almost one, so I can see why when we all get up, she thinks it's time to get up too, but regardless of what I do, I want to know and do something that I can just leave the table whenever to attend to whatever without her stealing.
Thanks guys!
by SitasMom on 08 February 2012 - 08:02
place set mouse traps under napkins, works everytime.
works for counter surfers, garbage bage raiders too.
by Sunsilver on 08 February 2012 - 14:02
That's what crates are for. I wouldn't tolerate this for one second! If she can't be trusted, she should be either crated or in another room.
If it's REALLY important for you to have her loose at mealtime, I'd put an 8 ft leash on her so you have something to grab to correct her with the minute she even LOOKS at the top of the table!
Another alternative: leash her to your waist as you are removing the dishes, so YOU are in control.
It sometimes boggles my mind what people will put up with from their dogs when the behaviour is so easy to correct!
If it's REALLY important for you to have her loose at mealtime, I'd put an 8 ft leash on her so you have something to grab to correct her with the minute she even LOOKS at the top of the table!
Another alternative: leash her to your waist as you are removing the dishes, so YOU are in control.
It sometimes boggles my mind what people will put up with from their dogs when the behaviour is so easy to correct!
by BroncoK on 08 February 2012 - 15:02
Sunsilver,
You have good points, and I will be doing this today (especially the "LOOK" at the table thing, perhaps my timing was bad, thank you), but I also wanted to defend myself in your statement "It sometimes boggles my mind what people will put up with from their dogs when the behavior is so easy to correct!"
It's not something that is tolerated in our home either. In fact my father commented on how little my dog is actually allowed to do implying that we were the "no fun" dog owners. We walk/run our dog, we have an agility set in our back yard to stimulate her brain (we even have a dirt mound for our terrior and her to sniff around and "find" things), she goes everywhere with us constantly being socialized, I think that just because we have rules in our home doesn't mean that we are no fun.
I'm just asking because this is the one area I can't seem to figure out how to get her to obey! I use the leash as a tool all day long, getting yanked on here and there for stealing from my sons hand, taunting the cat, barking at the door to be let in (she comes in on my terms, not on hers). I have even grabbed her by the kneck and shook her visciously to let her know that she CAN NOT do this at the table.
We use our crate, I'm not afraid of the crate. Sure I'll crate her during meal time, but on the occasion I have her out, is she going to learn that she can't go near the top of the table because she is crated? I don't think that she has cognitive reasoning to do that.
You have good points, and I will be doing this today (especially the "LOOK" at the table thing, perhaps my timing was bad, thank you), but I also wanted to defend myself in your statement "It sometimes boggles my mind what people will put up with from their dogs when the behavior is so easy to correct!"
It's not something that is tolerated in our home either. In fact my father commented on how little my dog is actually allowed to do implying that we were the "no fun" dog owners. We walk/run our dog, we have an agility set in our back yard to stimulate her brain (we even have a dirt mound for our terrior and her to sniff around and "find" things), she goes everywhere with us constantly being socialized, I think that just because we have rules in our home doesn't mean that we are no fun.
I'm just asking because this is the one area I can't seem to figure out how to get her to obey! I use the leash as a tool all day long, getting yanked on here and there for stealing from my sons hand, taunting the cat, barking at the door to be let in (she comes in on my terms, not on hers). I have even grabbed her by the kneck and shook her visciously to let her know that she CAN NOT do this at the table.
We use our crate, I'm not afraid of the crate. Sure I'll crate her during meal time, but on the occasion I have her out, is she going to learn that she can't go near the top of the table because she is crated? I don't think that she has cognitive reasoning to do that.
by poseidon on 09 February 2012 - 01:02
Hi BroncoK,
"I use the leash as a tool all day long, getting yanked on here and there for stealing from my sons hand, taunting the cat, barking at the door to be let in (she comes in on my terms, not on hers)."
IMO,it is best to emphasize on the tone of voice when using the leash, not overly harsh but with intent. I picture a constant yanking on the leash is like nagging. The real message is not properly put across to the dog. By all means use the crate as a back up. Before you get up to clear the table, place the dog on a down. Initially try to get someone else to clear the table while you ensure the dog in a down position. If there is going to be any struggle put him in the crate. If he complies, reward him when the table is cleared in another room :)
"I have even grabbed her by the kneck and shook her visciously to let her know that she CAN NOT do this at the table."
If the message is not put across properly as above, any physical correction is pointless and probably sends a message to the dog that you have lost control. Hope it makes sense :)
"I use the leash as a tool all day long, getting yanked on here and there for stealing from my sons hand, taunting the cat, barking at the door to be let in (she comes in on my terms, not on hers)."
IMO,it is best to emphasize on the tone of voice when using the leash, not overly harsh but with intent. I picture a constant yanking on the leash is like nagging. The real message is not properly put across to the dog. By all means use the crate as a back up. Before you get up to clear the table, place the dog on a down. Initially try to get someone else to clear the table while you ensure the dog in a down position. If there is going to be any struggle put him in the crate. If he complies, reward him when the table is cleared in another room :)
"I have even grabbed her by the kneck and shook her visciously to let her know that she CAN NOT do this at the table."
If the message is not put across properly as above, any physical correction is pointless and probably sends a message to the dog that you have lost control. Hope it makes sense :)
by BroncoK on 09 February 2012 - 03:02
Oooohhhh, I bet you she think's I'm a nag then. :/.
Well, I don't do the yank, yank, yank, yank....it's usually one big tug....but I still don't always get her attention. From previous threads I have read a lot about the leash correction. How it's supposed to pop....still trying to figure out how to master that. You say you use the tone of your voice? I'll need to think on this one. Someone told me not to train her with treats and then someone lit the light bulb in my head that she only obeys to not get a correction equals no fun for her, so we went out and got some jerky and she is much more intent on pleasing me, but we both (mainly me) needs a lot of work. I think you are right, having someone else to clear the table while the other makes sure she stays put is a good idea!
AND I was pretty furious when I shook her. She stole my grilled chicken off the table.
Well, I don't do the yank, yank, yank, yank....it's usually one big tug....but I still don't always get her attention. From previous threads I have read a lot about the leash correction. How it's supposed to pop....still trying to figure out how to master that. You say you use the tone of your voice? I'll need to think on this one. Someone told me not to train her with treats and then someone lit the light bulb in my head that she only obeys to not get a correction equals no fun for her, so we went out and got some jerky and she is much more intent on pleasing me, but we both (mainly me) needs a lot of work. I think you are right, having someone else to clear the table while the other makes sure she stays put is a good idea!
AND I was pretty furious when I shook her. She stole my grilled chicken off the table.
by Vixen on 09 February 2012 - 10:02
If you said to a child that it was time for bed, but they would lose TV time if they did not go to bed when told to - "no fun". Would you then give that child a large bar of chocolate as they go up to bed. Why??? There is nothing wrong with appropriate authority, that is part of a Parent's or Dog Owner's responsibility, and should not feel necessary to technically apologise for it.
Caring and Loving covers a whole multitude of interaction, (not purely just play and fun).
Regards,
Vixen
Caring and Loving covers a whole multitude of interaction, (not purely just play and fun).
Regards,
Vixen
by BroncoK on 10 February 2012 - 20:02
So the last two days have been better.
We have been re-putting her in her down/stay once we get up from the table and while my husband clears the table I have been re-enforcing her into her down, and in the mean time correcting her (more just asking her back to a down/stay) if she so much as looks at the table w/her leash around my belt buckle so she is always with me.
No one has had their chicken taken! lol
I have also been trying to not be so much of a nag. Still working on my tone of voice, something I think has to be learned more then taught hey? Anyway, thank you all for your input and advice!
We have been re-putting her in her down/stay once we get up from the table and while my husband clears the table I have been re-enforcing her into her down, and in the mean time correcting her (more just asking her back to a down/stay) if she so much as looks at the table w/her leash around my belt buckle so she is always with me.
No one has had their chicken taken! lol
I have also been trying to not be so much of a nag. Still working on my tone of voice, something I think has to be learned more then taught hey? Anyway, thank you all for your input and advice!
by GSDguy08 on 10 February 2012 - 21:02
Well said, Vixen
by poseidon on 11 February 2012 - 00:02
Glad to hear BroncoK.
If it was me, having ascertain a command for a dog who is learning house rules, I generally tend to reward the dog for compliance especially in the beginning to subdue resistance and re-focus. For this instance after your dinner, a little titbit but definately not left-overs from dinner. This is important as the dog must not associate human food as it will start salivating while you're eating and expecting the same flavour as reward :)
I am a bit hard and soft unlike Vivex in her analogy........I would send the child to bed early and tell them a bedtime story instead lol.
In the end you will find one way or another that works best for you and your dog.
If it was me, having ascertain a command for a dog who is learning house rules, I generally tend to reward the dog for compliance especially in the beginning to subdue resistance and re-focus. For this instance after your dinner, a little titbit but definately not left-overs from dinner. This is important as the dog must not associate human food as it will start salivating while you're eating and expecting the same flavour as reward :)
I am a bit hard and soft unlike Vivex in her analogy........I would send the child to bed early and tell them a bedtime story instead lol.
In the end you will find one way or another that works best for you and your dog.
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