My Fingers are Killing Me - Page 1

Hi Everyone,
For the last few days I have been working with Cisco on focused healing and he is a voracious hot dog eater.
He is totally focused on my face at the sit (with me standing) and wants to sit as soon as we stop moving.
However, as soon as we start to move he looks down and will glance up at me (which I reward him for) every once in a while.
I know that he has to learn to walk with his head up and it may take a little while but I don't know if my fingers will take much more.
How do you guys start to teach the focused heal?
And do you wear a thin glove?

Thanks for your advice and input.

C

First of all, I do not allow "alligator" taking of food.  Period.  Ever.  The dog is to take food gentle or the dog gets no food.  The dog gets snatchy there is no reward.  You must be 100% consistant. 

Teach this separate from the heeling.  ONLY work on polite taking of food.  Hold the food in your hand and if the dog goes to snatch, close your fist over it.  When he looks you in the eye, offer the food, and if he is snatchy, close your hand over it.  Rinse and repeat.  If he touches you with his teeth, you can yell OWWWW and turn, walk into another room and close the door.  Wait 30 seconds, come out and rinse and repeat. 

There is NO excuse for the dog to ever have his teeth on your skin.  This is manners you are training, not bite work. 

Put food in both hands, fists closed.  When the dog looks YOU in the eye and leaves your hands alone, you offer the food from one of your hands (not always the same one).  Put your hands in various locations.  You want to reward looking at you.  If the dog gets snatchy, do the same 30 second time out as noted above. 

If you are consistant this really does work. 

    LOL...I remember those days...: )

            My fingers were raw..lol..

            The trainer I was working with at the time demonstrated how to properly offer the treat without letting him take it alligator style...Her finger bled for an hour....lol...

             And I wonder why she threw us out of class a year later...lol...

Ouch and leave the room????  Poor baby.  Teaching your dog to be gentle with you will teach your dog to work dull and out of drive.  If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  I guarantee that if you do not allow your dog certain poetic license with it's interaction with you, you will have one bored, intimidated animal whose obedience is hard to watch.

I'm not saying that you should allow your dog to challenge you and get aggressive or possessive with you, but taking the drive and energy and enjoyment out of your dog is a waste of a good dog.  Get a slower, softer dog and give this one to someone who's not afraid of it.  I don't consider it a bite if it's my own dog and he's working hard for his reward and I'm just too slow to get my hands out of the way.

for dog companion/pet owners ...a must in the light of teaching dogs manners & RESPECT . ...... for sport people an additional must for teaching the dog self control .. If you teach a dog manners , repsect , and gentleness .. that does not mean that you kill the dog's motivation to work **!!! ..AS a matter of fact many times it INCREASES the motivation to do the work *** !!!/duderino .. you do an injustice to imply that in your commentary !.. ............
                     If you cannot teach a dog manners , self control .. then how in the world does a handler think that he'she will control that dog in sport ?? if your dog has no darn respect fopr you how in the world does one think that dog will perfrom WITH you ? is your answer Brut force ??  addtionally .. this little so called finger biting bit .. [BTW it is not unintentional  the dog knows it is biting your fingers] can and will transcend to other avenues !! i don't care IMO [ once foundation work has been accomplished ] if my dog is going for a bite with a tug .... if i hold it above it's head .. i expect the dog to be calm , cool , poised , concentrating for me to allow him to 'bite' . he doesn't just junmp up in my face for it -- and this dog needs two leg pads for a bite beacuse he will hurt you . he will literally break an arm on a hidden sleeve with bite force and body stregnth ..this  never decrease his motivation- it mkaes him want the tug more ... and he  learns and practices  self control !! this little bit translates to guarding .. he has learned self control and patience .. it was so easy to train  the guard and hold in protection work as again this behavior  translates .. .. just a spill over of the dog learning to control himself , to be poised , concentated . .
            same with a pet owner .. you should get to the point in playing ball .. just beacuse you hold that ball , that does not give the right to the dog to snatch it .. same premise .. the dog should be taught manners , poise , self control .. meaning the dog is allowed to get the ball , once you either give it or it is thrown !!  again _ just because he waits for the ball to be thrown  WON"T diminish his desire to chase the ball , try it !! i bet he can't wait for you to let that b all go .. when you feed the dog .. same thing .. it shouldn't be jumpimg up in your face .. it should be self controlled and calm .. BTW / that is a good time  - dinner time- to teach self control .. easy : the dog acts like a nut , no dinner .. dog sits calmly  then immdediately give his supper !!.. the concept doesn't JUST lie in hurting fingers with hot dogs !!  now one last comment.. beacuse you work the dog to 'drive you ' and push you THAT is not the same as manners and repsect .. a youngster can be pushy to dat , highly motivated , in order for dad to play ball yet that can be done with manners and respect .. it doesn't decrease the youngsters wish to play !! maybe will teach him appreciation when he does play and also teaches patience !! as writeen in another recent post .. taking food with manners can be taught in 1 to 2 minutes !! actually sometimes i can teach that in lessthan 30 seconds !! refer to other threads on this PDB

LOL@Ruger1



C: I would listen to Alphapup and Rass, I think you have to be a dude for Duderino's methods to work for you. LOL
 

Thanks everyone for your replies.

Duderino,
I'm not afraid of Cisco and don't want a softer dog........Re-reading my post I can see where you might think that but, I mainly wanted some advice.....like is there a certain way one should hold the hot dog...... or..... do some of you wear a thin glove..... or..... anything that might help a new handler.
Because honestly, I thought maybe I was doing something wrong. For example, I can't help but wince when he takes the hot dog piece because it hurts. I don't want my wincing to affect his work.

Yes, I am a new working dog handler, but I agree with you about correcting him for the hot dog.
I've never corrected him for being enthusiastic for a hot dog because I want him to be excited/happy about training (I enjoy seeing him in drive, it's exciting). Also, I reward with different types of treats, some smaller than the hot dog pieces..........the hotdogs are saved for field work.
The smaller treats are given for informal training (off the field) and Cisco doesn't alligator my fingers (much)......I don't want him in drive when my 6yo niece wants to give him a treat. Same thing applies to him jumping on me for the ball when we play, I want him to be confident and pushy for the ball so I don't correct him.

All that being said.......is there any advice you can offer to help me train focus heeling?

Thanks,
C

ok, my advice does not have anything to do with focused heeling but it has everything to do with gentle food taking form your hand....it may work for you...

I used boiled chicken breast separated into strips (this should work with a hot dog too)....i would place it between my index finger and middle finder with only about 1/2 inch to an inch stinking out at the palm of my hand the rest on outside on my hand i would hold a hand over dogs head when dog would sit while my hand is flat open with only meat part dangling from center of my hand...so no finger contact and once they bite that piece off you pull more down and keep going....you get about 2 bites out of it and on a butt end just open up your fingers...

I hope that helps...it worked for me to start with after that i taught them to bite instead of pull treat out of my hand and I can have 1 hot dog and have every dog "bite" a peace of it without their teeth biting my hand....it has no effect on killing the drive, it teaches them self control..

It should look like this and all you will get is their nose in a palm of your hand....

My current pup was a chomper when he was younger and yes, I did find that holding the food a certain way helped.  When we worked on heeling or focus I kept the food in my left hand with my palm on the left side of his muzzle facing in toward me and then pushed the food to him with my thumb, using my thumb to dispens the food.  Like this:








Also in general I do not let the dog *take* the food, I *give* the food.  I find this works best as described above or just in general offering food from the palm rather than holding it out between thumb and forefinger and getting chomped.