WHICH IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO

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by steve1 on 11 May 2010 - 07:05

Hi
As many of you know i attend a lot of Sch trials during the course of a year, and Belgium being such a small country you get to know people and there dogs pretty well, Now last year there were a few very promising YOUNG Dogs up and Coming and i high light the young bit for they were then 2-3 years old and they gained there ScH titles quickly, But this is the bit which is too be debated on
Those same Dogs when entered in a High Predigest Competition or Competitions this Spring have failed to come on in fact i notice a couple going backwards and losing there way they cannot take the pressure which goes with the Top Trials where no favours are ever given, every point is in fact earned twice that is how it is, for these competitions are to find the best Belgian Team for this years WUSV
Why have some of these Dogs not matured and improved but gone backwards. I have my theories as to why this has happened but it is unfair of me to voice it yet until you Guys answer, possibly some will think the same as i do, some will come up with different ideas.
I hope this stays a Calm Thread it is not to find out how much we all know about the sport, but to get an idea of perhaps it not happening to one of us Guys with our young Dogs in the Future, if we can come up with Why' it will stand us all in good stead later on i think
Everyone is welcome to reply regardless of whether they are interested in the Sport or how much they do or do not know, it is not about knowledge of one Guy against the other it is to find out why these young Dogs have not progessed since the Winter break, but of course they have moved up several levels in Competition
Steve1

by nonacona60 on 11 May 2010 - 08:05

Perhaps training on the same ground may be part of it. Too comfortable, than when trainng on different ground the insecurity creeps in. Maybe handler is feeling too confident or maybe the opposite not confident enough which reflects on through the dog? Really I guess it could be any number of reasons for each dog. Each may have it own reason. Does it seem that all the dogs are failng in the same phase of the trial or is it different phases for different dogs. Guess what I am asking is it a trend you are seeing for certain things or just in general?

by YogieBear on 11 May 2010 - 12:05

i notice a couple going backwards and losing there way they cannot take the pressure

Isn't this statement also true of young "human" atheletes that start at a young age and are very promising - get to the big leagues and loose their way for one reason or another. Alot of them can't handle the stress either.

Maturity does say alot for both species.

But Nona is right - it could be a number of things - but I have found it is a hurry up and get them titled with alot of people - and I have seen alot of dogs that have a SchH3 title - that can't even run blinds.

YogieBear

by DebiSue on 11 May 2010 - 13:05

This has my undivided attention. My girl has always had over the top drive, great ball drive, go go go. She still does. In fact if she is off the field and can see the helper she barks and pulls at the lead wanting her turn at him. When we get on the field she starts backing off. She will bite the sleeve half heartedly one minute then attack it the next. She all of a sudden seems unsure of what she is supposed to do, looking back at me as if waiting for instruction. The trainer is trying several different approaches but she seems bored to me. She is 19mo old and we are not rushing her. I am dying to read what others think on this subject.

by richram on 11 May 2010 - 14:05

Hi Steve,
   First of all, I would like to thank you and Hodie for your insights and comments.They are always interesting and useful.
I have been involved in Schutzhund and breeding for twenty years. I have evolved as a trainer and a breeder. Currently, I have four dogs I'm training for the sport. I love each of them equally. They are all different. So, I have to adapt my training to suit the dog.
    My criteria and the right way to go for me is:
                     1. A very good pedigree That has the traits I'm looking for.
                     2. TOTALLY bond with the dog.
                     3. Always keep the dog's drives and power strong and yet clear in the head.
                     4. My dogs come out on the field in drive and wanting to work with me. It's a team sport!
                     5. We both enjoy training.
Have fun with your dogs!
    My dogs: Aymee Vom Ausland
                     Euros Vom Haus Miller
                     Jetta Vom Geistwasser
                     Luger Von Armierung Haus II
   I am doing 2 BH's on the 21st.

by TessJ10 on 11 May 2010 - 14:05

Sometimes when the titles are gained "quickly," as Steve says they were for these young dogs, it means that the foundation training is not as good/strong as it should be.

As with any building, if you skimp on the foundation, cracks are going to show later. I think this is what happened.

by poseidon on 11 May 2010 - 15:05

I’ve read some really good reasons given so far.

I totally agree that insufficient foundation work and maturity in itself will likely pose a downfall for most young and promising dogs. As Tess so rightly puts it “if you skimp on the foundation, cracks are going to show later” This also lead me to believe that training without or the lack of proofing will evidently show whether the dog has learnt what is expected of it.

As for maturity, this is something within the individual dog. Here, I would consider enviromental factors like different helpers and different fields in order to ascertain if the dog is able to handle stress particularly in the protection phase.

I also like the point richram mentioned "Always keep the dog's drives and power strong and yet clear in the head."

by BlackthornGSD on 11 May 2010 - 16:05

Training for high level competition is an art in itself--and sometimes in trying for one more point here or there, you "break" something somewhere else. You have to let the dog have power while tightening down the control. And if these are young dogs being prepared for upper level competition, it's likely that the control was put on in a way that it "broke" something else and also it may have hurt the dog's ability to access his/her drives and confidence in the fight with the helper.

An older dog has much more depth of experience to handle the control from the handler while maintaining the power and drive in all phases of work.

by darylehret on 11 May 2010 - 16:05

I've never seen anyone mention the handler's ability to withstand the pressures of working in higher levels, which I would guess could also affect the dog's performance. I think there could be lots of compounding reasons also, but guess that strong foundation is of key importance.

by Sunsilver on 11 May 2010 - 16:05

Yes, it's always more stressful for the handler working off their home turf, and in a bigger, more prestigious competition. The stress is bound to be felt by the dog, as they are tuned in to our emotions.

It would be interesting to find out if young dogs do better with handlers who are used to this level of competition. But then, the 'big name' handlers would probably have better dogs to start with.

Lots of factors to consider here. Definitely building a good foundation with a young dog, and not rushing its training is very important.

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